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Post by hongkongstone on Aug 20, 2020 5:29:33 GMT
Just to throw it out there..... Would a graded method to permitted ground attendances between the divisions not be more appropriate? As pointed out by JDL the 100% rule for step 3 and below does not offer serious risk. Yet whilst maintaining a 25% capacity for EFL teams, could NL and NLS/NLN not be restricted to 33% and 50% respectively? The biggest supported club in NLN is York (@sword sorry to bring up their name but I have a good friend who is a die hard York fan) who last year had an average attendance of 2700. When they move into their new stadium at Monk's Cross with what I believe will be an 8500 capacity then this will not deprive them of income apart even if they are promoted to the NL (apart from maybe a few local derbies having to be all ticket). As for the mighty Stones..... If only we had that Riverside stand........and i was told it wouldn"t bring in any incremental revenue! I have nothing against York City just some of the total muppets that support them,hopefully your mate isnt one of them. When I was last in York I spoke to many City fans and a fair percentage of them are changing their allegiance to the rugby club because they are unwilling to travel far outside the city limits to attend the new ground. Their average last season was around 2800 but if feelings about the move are echoed by all supporters then this brand new stadium could be quite empty. The club is also spending silly money on players because they are expecting a £6million pound windfall from a 20% sell on clause for some premier league ponce that I have never heard of. What happens though when or if that money doesnt arrive? Bye bye York City. Apparently the 20% sell on clause is for Ben Godfrey who is currently at Norwich City. York are certainly going for it this year with even Jake Cassidy arriving from Stevenage (remember him?). They have ditched a lot of deadwood as contracts have finished (e.g. Jon Parkin) but are also picking up ex-Dover and Halifax players. It could be s*%t or bust for them but the new stadium is to be shared with the RL team (who already played very close by) so not sure where your rumour of fans drifting to rugby unless it is the Union team which is much closer to Bootham Crescent but play at a much lower level than the RL team do (RL team have aspirations for RFL Super League). The new stadium is at Monk's Cross which is less far from the centre of the city than Hollingbourne would be and inside the ring road. Maybe analagous to something like the Aylesford Retail Park, edge of town, no soul and in amongst the MFI type of stores. Thinks to self "I said MFI once but I think I got away with it".
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Post by porkystone on Aug 20, 2020 6:52:27 GMT
Key meeting coming up later today:
' Ollie Bayliss @ollie_Bayliss · 2m The National League will meet with club’s Covid Officers at 1230pm today.
They’ll discuss safety plans for the forthcoming season.
As well as having a Covid Officer, all 67 clubs are being asked to appoint a GMC registered doctor as a ‘Covid Medical Officer’. '
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Post by daveu on Aug 20, 2020 7:00:53 GMT
So if they use the same rules at National South we will be limited to either 450 or 900 That would screw Darlington's plans to hire a bigger Stadium. To be honest, this would work for the vast majority of clubs from step 3 down, but unworkable for most step 1 and 2 clubs as it's likely to cost more to stage games than you earn through the gate.
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Post by sword65 on Aug 20, 2020 7:24:19 GMT
It's ridiculous that a club like Whitley Bay fc whose ground capacity is on par with the Gallagher are only allowed 150 paying spectators because the ground grading system allows for a minimum ground capacity of 1000 for the Northern League. This will double to 300 when the 30% rule comes into effect. Whitley's average crowd is around 340. How do the MP's think that 300 in a 4200 capacity ground is economically viable for a club at this level. They may as well just send a wreath now.
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Post by steveh21 on Aug 20, 2020 7:29:40 GMT
Well some fans are better than none and it is to see how it goes first.. already a speedy increase from 15% to 30% and I think for most clubs at lower level that will be fine. Clubs can ask players to defer wages until later in the quarter perhaps with promise of a bonus if they do (around Xmas games for instance). All businesses need to juggle cashflow from time to time and for part-time players with other jobs you'd hope they would understand these are strange times and clubs' hands are tied. Unless you're Dover players and don't give a shit how tough things are.
There is no perfect solution at the moment..well, I have not heard one.
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Post by yorkshirestone on Aug 20, 2020 9:15:08 GMT
I have nothing against York City just some of the total muppets that support them,hopefully your mate isnt one of them. When I was last in York I spoke to many City fans and a fair percentage of them are changing their allegiance to the rugby club because they are unwilling to travel far outside the city limits to attend the new ground. Their average last season was around 2800 but if feelings about the move are echoed by all supporters then this brand new stadium could be quite empty. The club is also spending silly money on players because they are expecting a £6million pound windfall from a 20% sell on clause for some premier league ponce that I have never heard of. What happens though when or if that money doesnt arrive? Bye bye York City. Apparently the 20% sell on clause is for Ben Godfrey who is currently at Norwich City. York are certainly going for it this year with even Jake Cassidy arriving from Stevenage (remember him?). They have ditched a lot of deadwood as contracts have finished (e.g. Jon Parkin) but are also picking up ex-Dover and Halifax players. It could be s*%t or bust for them but the new stadium is to be shared with the RL team (who already played very close by) so not sure where your rumour of fans drifting to rugby unless it is the Union team which is much closer to Bootham Crescent but play at a much lower level than the RL team do (RL team have aspirations for RFL Super League). The new stadium is at Monk's Cross which is less far from the centre of the city than Hollingbourne would be and inside the ring road. Maybe analagous to something like the Aylesford Retail Park, edge of town, no soul and in amongst the MFI type of stores. Thinks to self "I said MFI once but I think I got away with it". York is a bit odd in a sense because it is relatively geographically distanced when you look at the large conurbations across South and West Yorkshire. Add to that the place the city walls hold in the local consciousness and the relatively tight ring road around the city and the natives of York are quite city-centric and beyond the ring road especially there isn't too much else for miles. I guess they just have a different approach to what is and what isn't a short journey.
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Post by jdh80 on Aug 20, 2020 10:02:57 GMT
Well some fans are better than none and it is to see how it goes first.. already a speedy increase from 15% to 30% and I think for most clubs at lower level that will be fine. Clubs can ask players to defer wages until later in the quarter perhaps with promise of a bonus if they do (around Xmas games for instance). All businesses need to juggle cashflow from time to time and for part-time players with other jobs you'd hope they would understand these are strange times and clubs' hands are tied. Unless you're Dover players and don't give a shit how tough things are. There is no perfect solution at the moment..well, I have not heard one. Clubs can ask players to defer wages, might work at premier league level, but part time players may be a major boost for their income and to lose that might see the players take a year out. It might be better for the player financially to pick up more hours with their main job and take a year out of the game. You say about Dover players not giving a shit, but how many people would accept a 20% pay cut to do the same job as the previous year. If you're on £30k 20% of that is £6k that's a big drop in wages for anyone would/could you afford to do that with family/mortgage/bills etc, I'm not saying i agree with the Dover players but i can certainly see where they are coming from.
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Post by daveu on Aug 20, 2020 11:23:22 GMT
Well some fans are better than none and it is to see how it goes first.. already a speedy increase from 15% to 30% and I think for most clubs at lower level that will be fine. Clubs can ask players to defer wages until later in the quarter perhaps with promise of a bonus if they do (around Xmas games for instance). All businesses need to juggle cashflow from time to time and for part-time players with other jobs you'd hope they would understand these are strange times and clubs' hands are tied. Unless you're Dover players and don't give a shit how tough things are. There is no perfect solution at the moment..well, I have not heard one. Clubs can ask players to defer wages, might work at premier league level, but part time players may be a major boost for their income and to lose that might see the players take a year out. It might be better for the player financially to pick up more hours with their main job and take a year out of the game. You say about Dover players not giving a shit, but how many people would accept a 20% pay cut to do the same job as the previous year. If you're on £30k 20% of that is £6k that's a big drop in wages for anyone would/could you afford to do that with family/mortgage/bills etc, I'm not saying i agree with the Dover players but i can certainly see where they are coming from. I took a 15% pay cut before I was furloughed. Fortunately the furlough pay was calculated on my former salary so I'm still only 20% down. Hopefully I'm back at work from September but still at 15% down. The company are hoping to reinstate it when things pick up.
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Post by steveh21 on Aug 20, 2020 14:50:23 GMT
Clubs can ask players to defer wages, might work at premier league level, but part time players may be a major boost for their income and to lose that might see the players take a year out. It might be better for the player financially to pick up more hours with their main job and take a year out of the game. You say about Dover players not giving a shit, but how many people would accept a 20% pay cut to do the same job as the previous year. If you're on £30k 20% of that is £6k that's a big drop in wages for anyone would/could you afford to do that with family/mortgage/bills etc, I'm not saying i agree with the Dover players but i can certainly see where they are coming from. I took a 15% pay cut before I was furloughed. Fortunately the furlough pay was calculated on my former salary so I'm still only 20% down. Hopefully I'm back at work from September but still at 15% down. The company are hoping to reinstate it when things pick up. Of course they gave a shit. My point really is they do not understand the pressures employers are under. Many people (including me) have had to take cuts in pay during the pandemic. Footballers are nothing special, especially at non league level. You can shout as loud as you like about money but if the club hasn't got it, it hasn't got it. And you can choose to move.. as most Dover players did. Dave is right.. if you get goodwill from employees then they will gain when things get better. There have been many examples of non-league clubs deferring wages. Our friends at Longmead being a prime example.
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Post by jdl on Aug 20, 2020 17:55:23 GMT
The fact, unfortunately, remains that if your Covid allowed gate is sustantially smaller than your normal home average, you are going to run at a hefty loss. But, assuming you own your own ground, can lay off staff and rely on volunteers, and have no substantial debts, you can simply shut up shop and wait things out, and only make a very small loss.
Anything much under 1700ish for us, and we almost cetainly lose more than if we just mothballed the club until the virus buggers off.
Not suggesting that, of course, but financially, those are the facts.
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Post by daveu on Aug 20, 2020 19:09:13 GMT
The fact, unfortunately, remains that if your Covid allowed gate is sustantially smaller than your normal home average, you are going to run at a hefty loss. But, assuming you own your own ground, can lay off staff and rely on volunteers, and have no substantial debts, you can simply shut up shop and wait things out, and only make a very small loss. Anything much under 1700ish for us, and we almost cetainly lose more than if we just mothballed the club until the virus buggers off. Not suggesting that, of course, but financially, those are the facts. No they're not. They're suppositions. Unless you're yet another person who knows what every player is paid. It literally staggers me how many supporters seem to know everything about confidential salary details at the club.
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Post by jdl on Aug 20, 2020 19:14:00 GMT
The fact, unfortunately, remains that if your Covid allowed gate is sustantially smaller than your normal home average, you are going to run at a hefty loss. But, assuming you own your own ground, can lay off staff and rely on volunteers, and have no substantial debts, you can simply shut up shop and wait things out, and only make a very small loss. Anything much under 1700ish for us, and we almost cetainly lose more than if we just mothballed the club until the virus buggers off. Not suggesting that, of course, but financially, those are the facts. No they're not. They're suppositions. Unless you're yet another person who knows what every player is paid. It literally staggers me how many supporters seem to know everything about confidential salary details at the club. You don't need to know such details to make such a statement. I stick to my claim that they are facts - at some point (OK, it might not be 1,700, but it's not far off), it's cheaper to stay closed than try to reopen. It would be interesting if a club followed that logic, but the league insisted on restarting...
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Post by hongkongstone on Aug 21, 2020 3:35:33 GMT
Apparently the 20% sell on clause is for Ben Godfrey who is currently at Norwich City. York are certainly going for it this year with even Jake Cassidy arriving from Stevenage (remember him?). They have ditched a lot of deadwood as contracts have finished (e.g. Jon Parkin) but are also picking up ex-Dover and Halifax players. It could be s*%t or bust for them but the new stadium is to be shared with the RL team (who already played very close by) so not sure where your rumour of fans drifting to rugby unless it is the Union team which is much closer to Bootham Crescent but play at a much lower level than the RL team do (RL team have aspirations for RFL Super League). The new stadium is at Monk's Cross which is less far from the centre of the city than Hollingbourne would be and inside the ring road. Maybe analagous to something like the Aylesford Retail Park, edge of town, no soul and in amongst the MFI type of stores. Thinks to self "I said MFI once but I think I got away with it". York is a bit odd in a sense because it is relatively geographically distanced when you look at the large conurbations across South and West Yorkshire. Add to that the place the city walls hold in the local consciousness and the relatively tight ring road around the city and the natives of York are quite city-centric and beyond the ring road especially there isn't too much else for miles. I guess they just have a different approach to what is and what isn't a short journey. Declaration of interest here is that I lived there for a year in 1999 and would say it is an excellent place to either visit or live (almost as good as the Stone). Basically everything of note is inside the ring road (including the Uni) and whilst my house was near the edge in Huntington it was still on the bus routes. London is only 2 hours away by train and there was one train in the mornings that did it in 1 hour 40, ideal for when you had meetings there meaning no ovrnight stops were needed. However, the locals views on other parts of Yorkshire, and in particular "Wessies" from Leeds/Bradford was less than complimentary....
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Post by Bernie on Aug 21, 2020 6:22:39 GMT
York also has an excellent bus system. Most parts of the city are accessible by buses running every few minutes. Maidstone is a similar size and we get Arriva and Nu Venture museum exhibits.
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Post by daveu on Aug 21, 2020 6:22:51 GMT
No they're not. They're suppositions. Unless you're yet another person who knows what every player is paid. It literally staggers me how many supporters seem to know everything about confidential salary details at the club. You don't need to know such details to make such a statement. I stick to my claim that they are facts - at some point (OK, it might not be 1,700, but it's not far off), it's cheaper to stay closed than try to reopen. It would be interesting if a club followed that logic, but the league insisted on restarting... You need to know such details to claim it as fact. It's only your opinion, and as I said previously to BBJ, I'm sure the owners know what they're doing and I'll trust them over your uninformed speculation.
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