Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2018 9:58:38 GMT
Still ok in my book, but there is certainly an issue with the lack of distance he gets with his kicks. Pretty much every keeper I've seen in this league can hoof a goal kick beyond the centre circle and a kick from hand goes to the opposite penalty area if they want. At best, Worgan's makes the halfway line. The opposition have clearly sussed this out and therefore can play higher up the field and/or put more pressure on the short stuff. Not sure how he can remedy this, other than lots more practice and time in the gym, but while distance is a problem, it tends to make midfield and defense that bit more vulnerable and something of a vicious circle. He may not get very much distance compared to other keepers but they are much more accurate He does get them a little longer than the halfway line, and he seems to be able to get them onto the head of a tall striker when required - I think your assessment is a little harsh. I don't think that is the issue. For me, he is playing well for 85 minutes but one or two silly errors in the other five minutes are costing us dear on occasions. He definitely needs to stop wandering too far out of his box - that was okay at Ryman level, but word has got around in the National League that he does it and opponents will be looking to catch him out. Perhaps he needs to rethink one or two things about his game now we play at this level, but his basic technique is very solid and you won't find a better shot stopper. Anyone who has played sport at any level knows that when you make a couple of costly mistakes, it gets into your head and you end up feeling more pressure next time you play - I suspect that's all it is with him. If he suddenly had a run of five games where he was excellent, we'd see the Old Worgs back. Confidence is such a huge part of sport.
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Post by jdl on Feb 12, 2018 11:20:32 GMT
Personally, I'm not that worried about how far he can kick, it's the fact that he nearly always kicks that bugs me. One of our few strengths is our wing play, so why doesn't he roll it out to the wing, instead of just aimlessly hoofing it up the pitch? Again and again we see defenders in space waiting to get the ball to start another attack, but Worgan hesitates, the moment passes, and he then has no choice but to hoof it - resulting in a frustrated defender and the ball invariably coming straight back at him.
As others have said, he needs to stay where he's supposed to be as well. He developed a style of play that we all applauded at the time, effectively becoming an 11th outfielder for much of the game, but at this level it doesn't work, NL players are too canny for that.
But I think this isn't just an isolated example of one area of our game that hasn't adapted to the NL, I think this is indicative of an overall problem in the club - we still behave as if we are a newly-promoted semi-pro side, happy to be playing with the big boys, and delighted just to survive. We need to change our mind-set - we are now a professional club, playing in a professional league. Promotion to the NL is the equivalent of our promotion to Div 4 30 years ago - out of non-league, and into professional football. Last time we adapted without trouble because the change was obvious and we knew it was adapt or come back down. This time we still seem to be thinking/behaving as if we were just in the division about NS - step up a bit, spend a bit more, toy with going 'full-time', but basically carry on as before.
In the NL that won't work.
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dan
Junior Member
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Post by dan on Feb 12, 2018 11:30:56 GMT
Some silly behaviour from maidstone fans after the game aswell! Their fans behaviour during the game was hardly any better. Poor stewarding when they scored their first, with a bunch of kids no older than 8 years old running straight through the 'segregation'. Clear they needed to open the sheltered area behind the goal for us. Asked several stewards why this section was shut and they said they had no clue why it was shut.
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Post by nws on Feb 12, 2018 11:41:13 GMT
Jesus Wept! I got to listen to about half an hour of the game on the radio on Saturday and it seemed like a decent and uplifting second half performance with good performances from the new players. I come and read this and all I see is moaning about facilities, slagging the goalkeeper, derogatory comments about fans, jdl's usual 'infatuated by NWS' post and little to nothing about the positive aspect of the game (i.e. we seemed to be the more likely to get a winner if the radio commentary was anything to go by).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2018 12:27:39 GMT
Personally, I'm not that worried about how far he can kick, it's the fact that he nearly always kicks that bugs me. One of our few strengths is our wing play, so why doesn't he roll it out to the wing, instead of just aimlessly hoofing it up the pitch? Again and again we see defenders in space waiting to get the ball to start another attack, but Worgan hesitates, the moment passes, and he then has no choice but to hoof it - resulting in a frustrated defender and the ball invariably coming straight back at him. As others have said, he needs to stay where he's supposed to be as well. He developed a style of play that we all applauded at the time, effectively becoming an 11th outfielder for much of the game, but at this level it doesn't work, NL players are too canny for that. But I think this isn't just an isolated example of one area of our game that hasn't adapted to the NL, I think this is indicative of an overall problem in the club - we still behave as if we are a newly-promoted semi-pro side, happy to be playing with the big boys, and delighted just to survive. We need to change our mind-set - we are now a professional club, playing in a professional league. Promotion to the NL is the equivalent of our promotion to Div 4 30 years ago - out of non-league, and into professional football. Last time we adapted without trouble because the change was obvious and we knew it was adapt or come back down. This time we still seem to be thinking/behaving as if we were just in the division about NS - step up a bit, spend a bit more, toy with going 'full-time', but basically carry on as before. In the NL that won't work. Does he kick instead of throwing because he wants to, or because that is what Jay asks him to do? Surely these are tactics worked out in training. It's probably not his fault
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Post by daveu on Feb 12, 2018 13:12:54 GMT
Jesus Wept! I got to listen to about half an hour of the game on the radio on Saturday and it seemed like a decent and uplifting second half performance with good performances from the new players. I come and read this and all I see is moaning about facilities, slagging the goalkeeper, derogatory comments about fans, jdl's usual 'infatuated by NWS' post and little to nothing about the positive aspect of the game (i.e. we seemed to be the more likely to get a winner if the radio commentary was anything to go by). Not really slagging Worgs but keepers are as prone to dips in form as any other player, and we don't have the luxury of a second keeper so he just needs to work his way through it and get his confidence back as soon as possible. Debatable whether we were more likely to get a winner, I think it could easily have gone either way in the last 10 minutes and had it not been for Beckwith "taking one for the team" Bromley could well have been the ones celebrating.
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Post by nws on Feb 12, 2018 13:25:48 GMT
Some silly behaviour from maidstone fans after the game aswell! Their fans behaviour during the game was hardly any better. Poor stewarding when they scored their first, with a bunch of kids no older than 8 years old running straight through the 'segregation'. Clear they needed to open the sheltered area behind the goal for us. Asked several stewards why this section was shut and they said they had no clue why it was shut. What exactly is the problem with some 8 years olds running through things? They're 8! Let them have a bit of fun when their team scores or are we incapable of taking a bit of fun poked at us from 8 year olds?
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Post by nws on Feb 12, 2018 13:29:37 GMT
Jesus Wept! I got to listen to about half an hour of the game on the radio on Saturday and it seemed like a decent and uplifting second half performance with good performances from the new players. I come and read this and all I see is moaning about facilities, slagging the goalkeeper, derogatory comments about fans, jdl's usual 'infatuated by NWS' post and little to nothing about the positive aspect of the game (i.e. we seemed to be the more likely to get a winner if the radio commentary was anything to go by). Not really slagging Worgs but keepers are as prone to dips in form as any other player, and we don't have the luxury of a second keeper so he just needs to work his way through it and get his confidence back as soon as possible. Debatable whether we were more likely to get a winner, I think it could easily have gone either way in the last 10 minutes and had it not been for Beckwith "taking one for the team" Bromley could well have been the ones celebrating. Fair enough, from some perspectives and I'll bow to your knowledge of what was going on at the end of the game as you were there and I wasn't. I could only comment on how it sounded. It would still be nice to hear about the new players. Due to not being on here for a few days I didn't even know we had got them until I listened to the commentary (made knowing who was going forward more difficult at first). It seemed like they did a good job and improved things.
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Post by daveu on Feb 12, 2018 13:38:13 GMT
Not really slagging Worgs but keepers are as prone to dips in form as any other player, and we don't have the luxury of a second keeper so he just needs to work his way through it and get his confidence back as soon as possible. Debatable whether we were more likely to get a winner, I think it could easily have gone either way in the last 10 minutes and had it not been for Beckwith "taking one for the team" Bromley could well have been the ones celebrating. Fair enough, from some perspectives and I'll bow to your knowledge of what was going on at the end of the game as you were there and I wasn't. I could only comment on how it sounded. It would still be nice to hear about the new players. Due to not being on here for a few days I didn't even know we had got them until I listened to the commentary (made knowing who was going forward more difficult at first). It seemed like they did a good job and improved things. They all look decent signings. Lafayette missed what at the time looked an absolute sitter in the first half, I'll reserve judgement on that until I see the highlights, but he gave us the focal point that has been missing since Piggs' departure, and hassled their defence into giving the ball away for our second equaliser. Beckwith looks to have a bit of class about him but looked a bit lacking in match fitness. Turgott wasn't really on long enough to make a complete judgement, but was full of running and trickery and did well to capitalise on Lafayette's work for the second goal.
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Post by jdl on Feb 12, 2018 14:08:44 GMT
Fair enough, from some perspectives and I'll bow to your knowledge of what was going on at the end of the game as you were there and I wasn't. I could only comment on how it sounded. It would still be nice to hear about the new players. Due to not being on here for a few days I didn't even know we had got them until I listened to the commentary (made knowing who was going forward more difficult at first). It seemed like they did a good job and improved things. They all look decent signings. Lafayette missed what at the time looked an absolute sitter in the first half, I'll reserve judgement on that until I see the highlights, but he gave us the focal point that has been missing since Piggs' departure, and hassled their defence into giving the ball away for our second equaliser. Beckwith looks to have a bit of class about him but looked a bit lacking in match fitness. Turgott wasn't really on long enough to make a complete judgement, but was full of running and trickery and did well to capitalise on Lafayette's work for the second goal. The key here is "I got to listen to about half an hour of the game". Somehow that entitles Not Watching Stones to opinions, but not those of us who actually watch the games. Apparently, you can make it up...
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Post by nws on Feb 12, 2018 14:15:16 GMT
They all look decent signings. Lafayette missed what at the time looked an absolute sitter in the first half, I'll reserve judgement on that until I see the highlights, but he gave us the focal point that has been missing since Piggs' departure, and hassled their defence into giving the ball away for our second equaliser. Beckwith looks to have a bit of class about him but looked a bit lacking in match fitness. Turgott wasn't really on long enough to make a complete judgement, but was full of running and trickery and did well to capitalise on Lafayette's work for the second goal. The key here is "I got to listen to about half an hour of the game". Somehow that entitles Not Watching Stones to opinions, but not those of us who actually watch the games. Apparently, you can make it up... Apparently you can...Justifying Desertion Lamentably just did. Can everyone just note that in my original post I used the words 'it seemed like'. When Dave U said something different I said 'I will bow to your knowledge of the game as you were there'. Despite all of this. Justifying Desertion Lamentably is invited to join the NWS love bus for the game at Boreham Wood. This is an offer of a door-to-door service. Let us see if he goes. Still I must applaud him for making the long journey to Bromley on Saturday. I would have gone but was working.
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Post by nws on Feb 12, 2018 14:20:10 GMT
Fair enough, from some perspectives and I'll bow to your knowledge of what was going on at the end of the game as you were there and I wasn't. I could only comment on how it sounded. It would still be nice to hear about the new players. Due to not being on here for a few days I didn't even know we had got them until I listened to the commentary (made knowing who was going forward more difficult at first). It seemed like they did a good job and improved things. They all look decent signings. Lafayette missed what at the time looked an absolute sitter in the first half, I'll reserve judgement on that until I see the highlights, but he gave us the focal point that has been missing since Piggs' departure, and hassled their defence into giving the ball away for our second equaliser. Beckwith looks to have a bit of class about him but looked a bit lacking in match fitness. Turgott wasn't really on long enough to make a complete judgement, but was full of running and trickery and did well to capitalise on Lafayette's work for the second goal. Thank you, Dave. I now have an understanding, from your viewpoint. It's a shame Justifying Desertion Lamentably hijacked your sensible post and my reasonable questions to try and score some cheap points, against those of us that bothered to support through thick and thin, to hide his 20-year desertion. I shall look forward to maybe seeing you at the Tranmere game. I think Justifying Desertion Lamentable thinks we actually hate each other. It's a shame his life is like that.
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Post by aristotle38 on Feb 12, 2018 14:57:51 GMT
Some silly behaviour from maidstone fans after the game aswell! Their fans behaviour during the game was hardly any better. Poor stewarding when they scored their first, with a bunch of kids no older than 8 years old running straight through the 'segregation'. Clear they needed to open the sheltered area behind the goal for us. Asked several stewards why this section was shut and they said they had no clue why it was shut. I dropped a line to the club afterwards complaining about the facilities. Apparently the facilities are "often praised" by visiting fans and my complaint was "the first of its kind". Good grief. The segregation was because of trouble last time involving "flares and fighting", and it was on police advice. Buck passed. The crappy car park is not owned the club and works were carried out last week. Christ can you imagine what it must have been like before that ?? Buck passed. I moaned that it wasn't worth a £15 ticket - and all they could say was "prices are advertised on our website, as they are at Maidstone". That wasn't my point. £15 is fine but not for a shithole like that. Anyway, I feel better for venting :-)
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Post by 61666 on Feb 12, 2018 16:01:38 GMT
Guess it is easy to forget that we have a new, purpose built stadium and many other clubs have either large, older stadiums that are less than a quarter full, or are just old. Not been to many away games in this league, but remember what dumps the likes of Leatherhead, Braintree and East Thurrock offered.
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Post by fleetphil on Feb 12, 2018 16:10:20 GMT
I have to agree with you, your not made to feel welcome either. It's more painful than the trek to the away end at Dover. Even worse was it was an evening game for us, and it was freezing cold.
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