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Post by jackster on Dec 21, 2022 10:39:50 GMT
It's pretty clear that our owners have taken the club are far as possible.
Strong NLS or weak National League is about it.
Suporters can enjoy the journey or clear off.
I guess the other choice is to stay with the club and be miserable.
Yes we have a few that the hat fits.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2022 10:41:53 GMT
The one interesting point is the installing of a new 3G pitch in the next year or so,proof positive they are not interested in promotion to the EFL Let's walk before we run eh! Struggling in the NL, it's gonna be a while before we even consider possible promotion to the EFL. Might as well take the income from the 3G for the next few years and worry about promotion if we are ever in a position to do so. Totally agree Dave but I'm not one of the people calling for the owners to leave and sell up because they have no ambition and thus laying of another 3G pitch will only add fuel to that fire. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2022 11:02:43 GMT
This is Maidstone. A county town, but only on branch lines, with a second rate town centre and little in the way of sporting heritage. There are plenty of towns the same around the country who have much less, yet somehow have attracted people with money to burn to get their go in the big(ger) time.
We are what we are, but this season is far more disappointing than last time in this league, because we don't have decent recruitment.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2022 14:51:34 GMT
Given that the business model of the club is built round a 3G pitch (and Oliver's passionate support for 3G), of course we'll carry on with plastic. And the current pitch badly needs replacing - it may still be playable, but it's looked awful almost from the start! (Compare and contrast our pitch with ALL other 3Gs that you see!)
But I don't think for one second that means Oliver doesn't want us in the EFL one day. At heart, he's a fan, just like the rest of us, and, if he thought we could do it without bankrupting the club, he'd certainly be up for it. I just rather suspect that he doesn't see it happening in the lifetime of a new 3G pitch
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2022 15:04:07 GMT
As for the more general question of our potential - I don't see why it's any different to any other club/town of a similar size. Plenty of clubs with no more obvious potential than us survive OK in the NL, and several have made the step up to the EFL.
Anyone who thinks Oliver and Terry lack ambition (which is self-evidently crazy considering what they have done for the club!), is simply misinterpreting their careful stewardship and business caution. The last thing we need is another Jim Thompson!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2022 15:11:40 GMT
As for the more general question of our potential - I don't see why it's any different to any other club/town of a similar size. Plenty of clubs with no more obvious potential than us survive OK in the NL, and several have made the step up to the EFL. Anyone who thinks Oliver and Terry lack ambition (which is self-evidently crazy considering what they have done for the club!), is simply misinterpreting their careful stewardship and business caution. The last thing we need is another Jim Thompson! One has to ask how teams like Accrington, Morecombere, Fleetwood and Burton can maintain themselves in EFL1 as I am sure if they dropped to NL then they would have equal if not lower attendences than the Stones? Similarly in EFL2 Crawley or Stevenage? (I will leave the sugar daddy clubs out of this debate). What are they doing different to us? |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2022 15:18:11 GMT
As for the more general question of our potential - I don't see why it's any different to any other club/town of a similar size. Plenty of clubs with no more obvious potential than us survive OK in the NL, and several have made the step up to the EFL. Anyone who thinks Oliver and Terry lack ambition (which is self-evidently crazy considering what they have done for the club!), is simply misinterpreting their careful stewardship and business caution. The last thing we need is another Jim Thompson! Once again I mention how if Altrincham, Maidenhead & Wealdstone (part time) can afford to be in this league we are doing something very wrong if we can't. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2022 15:28:32 GMT
Fairly obvious - poor recruitment over the summer and too many players now, meaning we can't afford to get better ones.
Will we offload in the New Year? Get rid of ten players and recruit two or three of genuine quality, with holding midfielder an absolute must.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2022 15:32:43 GMT
As for the more general question of our potential - I don't see why it's any different to any other club/town of a similar size. Plenty of clubs with no more obvious potential than us survive OK in the NL, and several have made the step up to the EFL. Anyone who thinks Oliver and Terry lack ambition (which is self-evidently crazy considering what they have done for the club!), is simply misinterpreting their careful stewardship and business caution. The last thing we need is another Jim Thompson! One has to ask how teams like Accrington, Morecombere, Fleetwood and Burton can maintain themselves in EFL1 as I am sure if they dropped to NL then they would have equal if not lower attendences than the Stones? Similarly in EFL2 Crawley or Stevenage? (I will leave the sugar daddy clubs out of this debate). What are they doing different to us? Fleetwood have been heavily bankrolled for a long time now, the season they won the National League it was well known that they were spending silly money. They're just another FGR & Salford who are only where they are due to someone being prepared to lose a lot of money each year. |
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Post by Better things to do in life on Dec 21, 2022 15:33:43 GMT
It's pretty clear that our owners have taken the club are far as possible. Strong NLS or weak National League is about it. Suporters can enjoy the journey or clear off. I guess the other choice is to stay with the club and be miserable. Yes we have a few that the hat fits. Up until this point in time I was firmly on the side of wanting us to be a constantly NL team (like Maidenhead or Bromley) with ambition to one day breakthrough into EFL - which is also why I felt that Hak wasnt NL savvy enough for us and that he needed to be replaced before the New Year to keep us in the NL with an NL experienced boss. Since Olivers statement, I have changed to accepting that as a club we are a good NLS set up with an occasional foray into the NL. This also means that in Hak we must trust, and also in the current squad - however lacking in NL quality it is - as that's who the Stones are. Hak somehow got us promoted as champions last time, so next season, if we go down, we may have another very good NLS campaign with him and Terry and their choice of players. This isnt defeatism but realism - nor is it moaning - its good to actually properly understand and accept where we are as a club so that we can change unrealistic expectations. It will actually make going to the Gallagher more fun, as if I stop expecting us to truly compete with NL opposition and accept that we are punching above our weight being in the NL and are always the underdogs it makes every NLK game more like an FA Cup tie and less disappointing if we are outplayed and lose. It will also make relegation more acceptable and NL survival even more miraculous and enjoyable, if by some chance we manage to stay up by the skin of our teeth. It also makes it perfect sense to not waste money on new players or managers we cannot afford and replace the 3G pitch for a few more seasons in NLS or NL. I am also not on the side of getting rid of or moaning about our current owners as it is all thanks to them that we have come this far. Of course if a mega rich benefactor came in to restore the dream of us becoming a "real" NL or even EFL club that would be great, but its not likely! It also makes the Worthing undeserved win and underpar performance more understandable and acceptable as actually quite a good win against an equally matched club as opposed to viewing it as an underperforming NL side struggling to perform and dominate against inferior opposition. So, instead of looking to the Daggers games as do or die for both our NL survival or for Haks reign as Manager I will now be grateful for any points at all we can get over Christmas in the long battle for the rest of the season to avoid finishing bottom of the NL and maybe, just maybe, by some heroics - managing to still be in the NL next year! Its all a matter of perspective. COYS! |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2022 15:38:54 GMT
The answer is five things: money, good stewardship, good management, good players and luck.
That list isn't mutually exclusive, for instance, if you've got a good manager and have a bit of luck (like we did under Jay), you don't need the money so much. On the other hand, money on its own isn't always enough (guess who I'm looking at here!).
Also, there's a difference to getting promoted and staying up. Promotion is relatively easy - a good manager, or even just a good group of players, and a bit of luck, and you're there. But staying there needs ALL five requirements.
For instance, for our first time in the NL, we had a pretty good bunch of players, an excellent manager and (I think) probably just about enough money. But, ultimately, luck wasn't on our side, and (I would argue - with apologies to Oliver, Terry and Bill) that we didn't have good stewardship.
It all happened too soon and too fast, and the club just wasn't ready for it. Up to that point, running a successful club had just meant letting Jay run the team, but suddenly they had to make decisions and take chances, with little or no experience. And they got distracted, just like we did (I hold my hand up here) with the fantasy of continued success and promotion, and took their eyes off the ball.
This time round, I assumed things would be better, as the necessary experience had been gained the hard way. But we ran foul of all three of the other requirements - good players, luck, and (from my personal perspective) good management. All of which has, of course, meant that we're also short of the other key requirement - money.
It's certainly not impossible for a club our size, but it's never going to be easy.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2022 15:48:48 GMT
As for the more general question of our potential - I don't see why it's any different to any other club/town of a similar size. Plenty of clubs with no more obvious potential than us survive OK in the NL, and several have made the step up to the EFL. Anyone who thinks Oliver and Terry lack ambition (which is self-evidently crazy considering what they have done for the club!), is simply misinterpreting their careful stewardship and business caution. The last thing we need is another Jim Thompson! One has to ask how teams like Accrington, Morecombere, Fleetwood and Burton can maintain themselves in EFL1 as I am sure if they dropped to NL then they would have equal if not lower attendences than the Stones? Similarly in EFL2 Crawley or Stevenage? (I will leave the sugar daddy clubs out of this debate). What are they doing different to us? Probably because they already had half decent stadiums that just needed a few improvements where we had to start from scratch,that already puts them about £3million better off than us. EFL teams get a decent amount of money each season, not sure how much but it's a damn sight more than we get. Another of these clubs also have clubhouses in operation and providing food 12 hours per day and with pubs shutting left right and centre even more people are turning to football social clubs. My Northern team Whitley Bay FC of the Northern League would probably fold if their magnificent clubhouse wasn't open and providing top class entertainment 7 days per week. Our club has the occasional quiz and shows live footy but most people ho elsewhere because of the pricey megashit beer. When was the last time they had a live band, a comedian, a guest speaker or even bingo. Snodland town put us to shame with their social activities. The last time I visited our clubhouse in the afternoon it took 20 minutes for the staff to make me a cup of black coffee and there were 4 people present,that doesn't say to me "come back soon". All the clubs you mention especially up north can probably count social takings at at least 25 % of their yearly budget, I'd be surprised if ours is 10%.Do we really make that much money in the odd wedding or birthday? I doubt it. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2022 15:49:33 GMT
As for the more general question of our potential - I don't see why it's any different to any other club/town of a similar size. Plenty of clubs with no more obvious potential than us survive OK in the NL, and several have made the step up to the EFL. Anyone who thinks Oliver and Terry lack ambition (which is self-evidently crazy considering what they have done for the club!), is simply misinterpreting their careful stewardship and business caution. The last thing we need is another Jim Thompson! Once again I mention how if Altrincham, Maidenhead & Wealdstone (part time) can afford to be in this league we are doing something very wrong if we can't. True. But it is still sport and so you will still get teams doing a better job than us and this doing well in comparison. I still see us as an NL side. We need to stick in this league, learn some lessons and build a better squad. I still think we need some investment in scouting. There are bargains to be had and Hak has to rely on info from others in the most part. I am sure they get loads of video packages in the summer but that just highlights good bits. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2022 15:50:31 GMT
As for the more general question of our potential - I don't see why it's any different to any other club/town of a similar size. Plenty of clubs with no more obvious potential than us survive OK in the NL, and several have made the step up to the EFL. Anyone who thinks Oliver and Terry lack ambition (which is self-evidently crazy considering what they have done for the club!), is simply misinterpreting their careful stewardship and business caution. The last thing we need is another Jim Thompson! Once again I mention how if Altrincham, Maidenhead & Wealdstone (part time) can afford to be in this league we are doing something very wrong if we can't. I refer the honourable gentleman to my post later down the thread or possibly just up there⬆️ |
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Post by Better things to do in life on Dec 21, 2022 15:51:13 GMT
The answer is five things: money, good stewardship, good management, good players and luck. That list isn't mutually exclusive, for instance, if you've got a good manager and have a bit of luck (like we did under Jay), you don't need the money so much. On the other hand, money on its own isn't always enough (guess who I'm looking at here!). Also, there's a difference to getting promoted and staying up. Promotion is relatively easy - a good manager, or even just a good group of players, and a bit of luck, and you're there. But staying there needs ALL five requirements. For instance, for our first time in the NL, we had a pretty good bunch of players, an excellent manager and (I think) probably just about enough money. But, ultimately, luck wasn't on our side, and (I would argue - with apologies to Oliver, Terry and Bill) that we didn't have good stewardship. It all happened too soon and too fast, and the club just wasn't ready for it. Up to that point, running a successful club had just meant letting Jay run the team, but suddenly they had to make decisions and take chances, with little or no experience. And they got distracted, just like we did (I hold my hand up here) with the fantasy of continued success and promotion, and took their eyes off the ball. This time round, I assumed things would be better, as the necessary experience had been gained the hard way. But we ran foul of all three of the other requirements - good players, luck, and (from my personal perspective) good management. All of which has, of course, meant that we're also short of the other key requirement - money. It's certainly not impossible for a club our size, but it's never going to be easy. Another post full of healthy realism and good analysis. The test now will be if in general all or most of our supporters can accept this realistic position and still attend matches to the tune of 2000 a game to still cheer on our plucky boys who are punching above their weight even being in NL and not decide to stay away because we arent financially able to be up there with the big boys in this league. |
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