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Post by jdl on May 31, 2020 17:38:13 GMT
Plus the likelihood of taking his cue from Agent Orange over the Pond. While there is also out of the blue an easing of lockdown for many vulnerable people. Talk about mixed messages! There seems to be neither science nor logic to their approach - more like throw shit in the fan and see what sticks. All this while three people had to be rescued by air ambulances from Durdle Door in Dorset, after jumping off the cliffs. Media photos show hundreds crowded together like the kop end on match day to give the choppers room to land, then herded up the cliff path, sans social distancing afterwards. Herne Bay yesterday busy but well spread out, so a nice walk on the prom. Apart that is from the group of young, somewhat rotund young men, one of whom sneezed openly not far from me, making no effort to cover his mouth. All I can say is I was glad to be up wind at the time. What with the government and national fuckwitism, I don't fancy our chances of avoiding a second lockdown. Were you visiting nws?
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Post by pedant on May 31, 2020 18:43:09 GMT
WTF? I was worried enough that the government figures say over 2,000 new infections every day - and no real improvement over the last week or so. Plus I don't consider an R value of "between 0.7 and 0.9" too comforting either. Then I discover today that the "true" figure for new infections is more like 8,000 a day, and this doen't include NHS and care homes!! How on earth is the "true" figure over 400% larger than the government one?? Can R really be below one if there's that number of new infections every day - outside of hospitals and care homes? WTF is going on? Kids going back to school Monday, shops opening a week after, lockdown well and truly Cumminged... As I understand it the published daily figure is for those who have tested positive. We've all been aware from very early on that the majority of people who have had it do not get tested hence the difference.
It follows therefore that should we be able to actually use the alleged 200,000 tests a day that more people will get a positive result and the published daily figure is likely to increase but that increase will not necessarily indicate that more people are getting the virus. But there again, it might.
The current estimate is 1 in 400 has the virus. That's approx. 160,000 people in the UK and if one has it for three weeks that's where you get the 8,000 per day figure from.
By the way. Isn't the figure '4 times the daily published figure' or '300% larger'? To me your 400% larger implies its 8,000 people larger than the other figure.
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Post by pedant on May 31, 2020 20:07:33 GMT
While I'm questioning statistics I thought we were told the mortality rate was around 0.5 - 1.0%
If that's accurate and we're around 200 deaths a day that would need a daily rate of 20,000 to 40,000 new infections.
If the 8,000 new infections is accurate then we've currently got a mortality rate of 2.5%.
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Post by nws on Jun 1, 2020 9:33:43 GMT
While I'm questioning statistics I thought we were told the mortality rate was around 0.5 - 1.0% If that's accurate and we're around 200 deaths a day that would need a daily rate of 20,000 to 40,000 new infections. If the 8,000 new infections is accurate then we've currently got a mortality rate of 2.5%. Don't forget people will get it and not know. Also it is ripping through care homes where the rate will be something like 14%
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Post by sword65 on Jun 1, 2020 15:53:57 GMT
Lockdown was and still is about managing the rate of deaths. We needed lockdown so that the NHS had half a chance of coping. The death toll to me you and 99% of the country is still frightening but the NHS can cope with current levels. Yes 40,000 have died but without lockdown that could have been 250,000 and I defy anyone to tell me how the NHS would have coped with this. We cannot stay locked up until the virus is eradicated as this may NEVER happen but in the eyes of politicians a daily death toll of less than 300 can be considered a success and justification of lockdown. I didnt vote Tory, and I dont particularly like BOJO but I feel he has done as good a job as anyone else could have. I fully expect him to resign within 12 months though as the pressure will have taken its toll.
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Post by jdl on Jun 1, 2020 22:08:37 GMT
Omnishambles from the start. All Johnston has ever wanted was to be PM, and he did anything he had to do to get there. Then along came Coronovirus and fucked him up completed. Just like he'd fucked the country.
There's a sort of dark poetry to it all.
Just a pity that we're participants, not just observers...
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Post by nws on Jun 1, 2020 23:13:20 GMT
I find it hard to comprehend that Sword thinks nobpdy could have done better than Johnson in this crisis. Where to start? Why did we keep letting flights on from Wuhan and Northern Italy when pepplr were dropping like flies? Why have we only just dtarted to think it mihht be a good idea to start quarantining people at airports? Why did Johnson spend half of February missing meetings to swan about in Kent having a nice time while other leaders spotted a problem and set about dealing with it? Why did Johnson and his cohorts spend ages acting like there was no problem when there was quite clearly one erupting? Why did we go into lockdown at least one week too late (probably longer)? Why were NHS staff left with inadequate PPE gear? Why were old people sent back to care home when still carrying the virus? Why were care homes and their dtaff seemingly abandoned for half of march? Why has test, track and trace been so woeful? Why did Kohnson think it sensible to shake hands of known carriers and contract the virus? Why has Johnson seen fit to condone the actions of cummings?
I'm sorry, but the handling of this, imcluding the missed testing targets and sibsequent double counting of tests, has been catastrophic. Johnson is not fit for purpose. Johnson is not a PM, this is not a government
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Post by jdh80 on Jun 2, 2020 3:21:23 GMT
I find it hard to comprehend that Sword thinks nobpdy could have done better than Johnson in this crisis. Where to start? Why did we keep letting flights on from Wuhan and Northern Italy when pepplr were dropping like flies? Why have we only just dtarted to think it mihht be a good idea to start quarantining people at airports? Why did Johnson spend half of February missing meetings to swan about in Kent having a nice time while other leaders spotted a problem and set about dealing with it? Why did Johnson and his cohorts spend ages acting like there was no problem when there was quite clearly one erupting? Why did we go into lockdown at least one week too late (probably longer)? Why were NHS staff left with inadequate PPE gear? Why were old people sent back to care home when still carrying the virus? Why were care homes and their dtaff seemingly abandoned for half of march? Why has test, track and trace been so woeful? Why did Kohnson think it sensible to shake hands of known carriers and contract the virus? Why has Johnson seen fit to condone the actions of cummings? I'm sorry, but the handling of this, imcluding the missed testing targets and sibsequent double counting of tests, has been catastrophic. Johnson is not fit for purpose. Johnson is not a PM, this is not a government Whilst i completely agree that Johnson's handling of covid-19 has been majorly piss poor, i still firmly believe that had labour won and corbyn been in charge he would've also royally effed up with the dealing of covid-19. Sadly i do not see a single politician who would have dealt with this any better as they are all useless inept morons who haven't got a Scooby what the hell they are doing other than lining their own pockets with money.
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Post by 61666 on Jun 2, 2020 7:16:12 GMT
I will give the Chancellor some credit for measures he has put in place, many of them more Labour like than Tory. However, the lack of clear strategy from government has been and remains a concern. Quarantine for foreign arrivals hasn't even started yet, but already they are having second thoughts. Seems to me it is more a case of cherry picking what other countries are doing, rather than really following scientific advice. Today, Spain is saying they don't want us at the moment and can you blame them? No doubt the sort of people they are worried about as the same ones that descended on popular beauty spots, blocking car parks, crapping on the beaches and leaving litter everywhere. Sadly, there is a small but significant proportion of society who are collectively stupid, lacking in any sort of imagination and completely selfish. Why else would they all go to the same place, when with a little thought there are other places, just as good, not far away? Feel sorry for the locals who have to put up with them.
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Post by sword65 on Jun 2, 2020 9:54:29 GMT
I find it hard to comprehend that Sword thinks nobpdy could have done better than Johnson in this crisis. Where to start? Why did we keep letting flights on from Wuhan and Northern Italy when pepplr were dropping like flies? Why have we only just dtarted to think it mihht be a good idea to start quarantining people at airports? Why did Johnson spend half of February missing meetings to swan about in Kent having a nice time while other leaders spotted a problem and set about dealing with it? Why did Johnson and his cohorts spend ages acting like there was no problem when there was quite clearly one erupting? Why did we go into lockdown at least one week too late (probably longer)? Why were NHS staff left with inadequate PPE gear? Why were old people sent back to care home when still carrying the virus? Why were care homes and their dtaff seemingly abandoned for half of march? Why has test, track and trace been so woeful? Why did Kohnson think it sensible to shake hands of known carriers and contract the virus? Why has Johnson seen fit to condone the actions of cummings? I'm sorry, but the handling of this, imcluding the missed testing targets and sibsequent double counting of tests, has been catastrophic. Johnson is not fit for purpose. Johnson is not a PM, this is not a government I agree with most of this but the one thing absent from your very observant rant is the name of the person who would have done better,maybe ,like me, you cannot think of one. Then there is the fact that if he had got everything right you would still find something to rant about because you dont like the man,I understand that but who,please tell me,would you prefer as I believe you just about hate every politician there is. I have said it before and I will say it again if you can do better then become an MP, I will even move down to Herne Bay to vote for you. I think you are intelligent enough,you have the drive and will to succeed but then if you were elected you would doubtless turn into a jibbering idiot like the rest of them,but at least you would be a rich jibbering idiot.
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Post by pedant on Jun 2, 2020 11:32:40 GMT
I find it hard to comprehend that Sword thinks nobpdy could have done better than Johnson in this crisis. Where to start? Why did we keep letting flights on from Wuhan and Northern Italy when pepplr were dropping like flies? Why have we only just dtarted to think it mihht be a good idea to start quarantining people at airports? Why did Johnson spend half of February missing meetings to swan about in Kent having a nice time while other leaders spotted a problem and set about dealing with it? Why did Johnson and his cohorts spend ages acting like there was no problem when there was quite clearly one erupting? Why did we go into lockdown at least one week too late (probably longer)? Why were NHS staff left with inadequate PPE gear? Why were old people sent back to care home when still carrying the virus? Why were care homes and their dtaff seemingly abandoned for half of march? Why has test, track and trace been so woeful? Why did Kohnson think it sensible to shake hands of known carriers and contract the virus? Why has Johnson seen fit to condone the actions of cummings? I'm sorry, but the handling of this, imcluding the missed testing targets and sibsequent double counting of tests, has been catastrophic. Johnson is not fit for purpose. Johnson is not a PM, this is not a government Irrespective of the party in power, and accepting I'm cherrypicking one question, I don't recall any great (or even small) push at the time for a lockdown earlier than we did.
Not convinced that the Great British public was ready to accept an earlier lockdown. Indeed the epicentre of the UK outbreak, London (and elsewhere), flocked to the pubs on the Friday it was announced they were being closed despite the advice not to do so.
Hindsight remains a wonderful thing.
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Post by 61666 on Jun 2, 2020 12:29:17 GMT
As I posted earlier, the great British public are part of the problem. Governments there need to act to protect the majority from the minority who are selfish and stupid.
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Post by pedant on Jun 2, 2020 12:54:17 GMT
As I posted earlier, the great British public are part of the problem. Governments there need to act to protect the majority from the minority who are selfish and stupid. Quite
I suspect part of the rationale behind the lockdown relaxations is that the public couldn't be trusted to follow the stricter rules for longer.
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Post by shamstone on Jun 2, 2020 13:41:38 GMT
I find it hard to comprehend that Sword thinks nobpdy could have done better than Johnson in this crisis. Where to start? Why did we keep letting flights on from Wuhan and Northern Italy when pepplr were dropping like flies? Why have we only just dtarted to think it mihht be a good idea to start quarantining people at airports? Why did Johnson spend half of February missing meetings to swan about in Kent having a nice time while other leaders spotted a problem and set about dealing with it? Why did Johnson and his cohorts spend ages acting like there was no problem when there was quite clearly one erupting? Why did we go into lockdown at least one week too late (probably longer)? Why were NHS staff left with inadequate PPE gear? Why were old people sent back to care home when still carrying the virus? Why were care homes and their dtaff seemingly abandoned for half of march? Why has test, track and trace been so woeful? Why did Kohnson think it sensible to shake hands of known carriers and contract the virus? Why has Johnson seen fit to condone the actions of cummings? I'm sorry, but the handling of this, imcluding the missed testing targets and sibsequent double counting of tests, has been catastrophic. Johnson is not fit for purpose. Johnson is not a PM, this is not a government Why has your spelling went all to fcuk
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Post by nws on Jun 2, 2020 22:12:46 GMT
I find it hard to comprehend that Sword thinks nobpdy could have done better than Johnson in this crisis. Where to start? Why did we keep letting flights on from Wuhan and Northern Italy when pepplr were dropping like flies? Why have we only just dtarted to think it mihht be a good idea to start quarantining people at airports? Why did Johnson spend half of February missing meetings to swan about in Kent having a nice time while other leaders spotted a problem and set about dealing with it? Why did Johnson and his cohorts spend ages acting like there was no problem when there was quite clearly one erupting? Why did we go into lockdown at least one week too late (probably longer)? Why were NHS staff left with inadequate PPE gear? Why were old people sent back to care home when still carrying the virus? Why were care homes and their dtaff seemingly abandoned for half of march? Why has test, track and trace been so woeful? Why did Kohnson think it sensible to shake hands of known carriers and contract the virus? Why has Johnson seen fit to condone the actions of cummings? I'm sorry, but the handling of this, imcluding the missed testing targets and sibsequent double counting of tests, has been catastrophic. Johnson is not fit for purpose. Johnson is not a PM, this is not a government Irrespective of the party in power, and accepting I'm cherrypicking one question, I don't recall any great (or even small) push at the time for a lockdown earlier than we did.
Not convinced that the Great British public was ready to accept an earlier lockdown. Indeed the epicentre of the UK outbreak, London (and elsewhere), flocked to the pubs on the Friday it was announced they were being closed despite the advice not to do so.
Hindsight remains a wonderful thing.
You may not recall others pushing for it. This does though www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/23/pressure-grows-boris-johnson-impose-uk-coronavirus-lockdownHindsight is a wonderful thing, if accurate. Ps I had a bit of a disagreement with my company about our lads going to school and staff being swapped to different houses. This started a week before lockdown and I was very much ranting about how they were ignoring the problem and we should be going into lockdown!
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