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Post by shamstone on Jul 9, 2019 12:38:36 GMT
I think we’re in an nws. No Win Situation Sorry if my post contained salient points which led to you panicking. Your mistaking me for oldboy
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Post by pwoodstone on Jul 9, 2019 13:16:16 GMT
Firstly, saving the planet. I think old mother nature has done a pretty good job so far so why not just leave her to it. Nobody,repeat nobody knows that global warming and the thinning ozone layer are not part of the Cycle of time lets face it millions of years ago you had dinosaurs mooching around eating their greens and farting all day long as well as Neolithic man building huge fires to cook his Mcdactly burger on, all of this probably affected the ozone layer so mother nature acted and it was goodbye dinosaur . Maybe this time it will goodbye man/woman. As for Brexit ,well like it or not this country voted to leave bout only 160 mps foĺlowed suit and those that voted remain are blocking it all the way. These 450ish MP's are going against the will of the country and therefore are putting their wishes above ours. The vote was a democratic one whereas the actions of our government is the stellar opposite of democracy. Will of the country? 75% of those eligible voted, 53% of those in favour so in fact only about 40% of the electorate supported Brexit. Divide that up by the number of different versions of Brexit that have been bandied about over the last 2 and half years and that is no way a mandate to leave. Then of course democracy allows people to change their minds, which is why we have general elections every five years. In the recent Euro elections the Lib Dems and Greens between them polled more votes than the combined Brexit supporting parties. And even if they had won square and fair people are still entitled to express opposing opinions with being oppressed. 37% of the electorate voted to leave 24.5% voted to remain The rest couldn’t or didn’t vote Like it or not, that’s a result and should be implemented. As soon as they said any deal had to be approved by the house, I knew we wouldn’t see much success in leaving. People voted leave despite the risk of reverting to WTO trade tariffs and other drawbacks that we are now trying to stop from happening We should take the hit and maximise efforts to bounce back by re-uniting the country and putting this behind us. The uncertainty and impasse is not helping the country. It’s a political game now so I cannot see any of this happening any time soon. I voted to remain. I believe in the EU, but the result was the result and they didn’t put any criteria for size of majority needed so it’s tough. I have accepted it. Cameron’s political games in putting the referendum in the manifesto, May having the snap election which effectively wiped out her majority and any chance of voting a deal through and the way the referendum was campaigned, is one massive cluster frick.
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Post by Nick on Jul 9, 2019 14:58:33 GMT
[quote author=" daveu " source="/post/182996/thread" Will of the country? 75% of those eligible voted, 53% of those in favour so in fact only about 40% of the electorate supported Brexit. Divide that up by the number of different versions of Brexit that have been bandied about over the last 2 and half years and that is no way a mandate to leave. Then of course democracy allows people to change their minds, which is why we have general elections every five years. In the recent Euro elections the Lib Dems and Greens between them polled more votes than the combined Brexit supporting parties. And even if they had won square and fair people are still entitled to express opposing opinions with being oppressed.[/quote] "Then of course democracy allows people to change their minds" David Davies "A democracy that cannot change its mind ceases to be a democracy" Nigel Farage "If this vote is close, say 52-48, then this will be unfinished business by a long way" Jacob Rees Mogg "I think we should have two referendums. One before the negotiation and one after we know the outcome of that negotiation" OMG ! There was me thinking that I would have a look at the forum to read about the club's latest signing and I stumble across all this political waffle.
If nws likes to expose the truth by highlighting some genuinely hilarious post from politicians, he may like to add the following to his list.EASIEST DEAL IN HISTORY “Coming to a free trade agreement with the EU should be one of the easiest in human history.” – Liam Fox, International Trade Secretary, July 2017. A 24-HOUR BREXIT “The day after we vote to leave, we hold all the cards and we can choose the path we want.” – Michael Gove, Secretary of State for Environment, April 2016. WHAT IS IT WITH THESE GUYS AND “HOLDING THE CARDS”? “Getting out of the EU can be quick and easy – the UK holds most of the cards.” John Redwood, Conservative MP, July 2016. Plenty more where they came from but let's not go there !
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Post by pwoodstone on Jul 9, 2019 15:21:36 GMT
The days of calling politicians on their lies and it being the end of their careers is long gone.
It’s a sign of modern day politics
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Post by shamstone on Jul 9, 2019 15:28:57 GMT
The bigger the liar, the higher the office
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Post by daveu on Jul 9, 2019 17:56:48 GMT
The bigger the liar, the higher the office Boris PM for a very long time then
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Post by sword65 on Jul 9, 2019 21:17:11 GMT
Firstly, saving the planet. I think old mother nature has done a pretty good job so far so why not just leave her to it. Nobody,repeat nobody knows that global warming and the thinning ozone layer are not part of the Cycle of time lets face it millions of years ago you had dinosaurs mooching around eating their greens and farting all day long as well as Neolithic man building huge fires to cook his Mcdactly burger on, all of this probably affected the ozone layer so mother nature acted and it was goodbye dinosaur . Maybe this time it will goodbye man/woman. As for Brexit ,well like it or not this country voted to leave bout only 160 mps foĺlowed suit and those that voted remain are blocking it all the way. These 450ish MP's are going against the will of the country and therefore are putting their wishes above ours. The vote was a democratic one whereas the actions of our government is the stellar opposite of democracy. So I was right. You were lying. "nobody knows that global warming and the thinning ozone layer are not part of the Cycle of time lets face it millions of years ago you had dinosaurs mooching around eating their greens and farting all day long as well as Neolithic man building huge fires to cook his Mcdactly burger on" We will ignore that man never existed at the same time as dinosaurs (although I'm not entirely sure you are suggesting that). I'm not quite sure that I'm ready to ignore the whole army of scientists who are telling us that we are now in an era where climate is affected by us. It's just selfish laziness and 'I'm alright Jack' attitude to ignore it. Brexit - The 'democratic' vote that may well have seen electoral fraud committed. Ok. Incidentally, we have just seen the head of the WTO speak out and tell us that the latest line about GATT 24 peddled by leave voters is a lie. Can I just ask why leavers will tell me that the 2017 Parliament saw 83% of people vote for parties that support brexit and thus there is a massive mandate for Brexit while simultaneously claiming that we have a remain parliament that is blocking brexit. Please also note that you would have had brexit if the ERG had voted for May's deal. Instead they blocked it. I was not lying, I was tired and today I am very,very ill and in pain that even Tramadol is struggling to control and more worryingly I have twice coughed up blood. Should i wake up tomorrow my opinions will not change let's just see if I live long enough to see you proved wrong about Brexit and the effects on our lives.
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Post by nws on Jul 9, 2019 22:42:24 GMT
[quote author=" daveu " source="/post/182996/thread" Will of the country? 75% of those eligible voted, 53% of those in favour so in fact only about 40% of the electorate supported Brexit. Divide that up by the number of different versions of Brexit that have been bandied about over the last 2 and half years and that is no way a mandate to leave. Then of course democracy allows people to change their minds, which is why we have general elections every five years. In the recent Euro elections the Lib Dems and Greens between them polled more votes than the combined Brexit supporting parties. And even if they had won square and fair people are still entitled to express opposing opinions with being oppressed. "Then of course democracy allows people to change their minds" David Davies "A democracy that cannot change its mind ceases to be a democracy" Nigel Farage "If this vote is close, say 52-48, then this will be unfinished business by a long way" Jacob Rees Mogg "I think we should have two referendums. One before the negotiation and one after we know the outcome of that negotiation" OMG ! There was me thinking that I would have a look at the forum to read about the club's latest signing and I stumble across all this political waffle.
If nws likes to expose the truth by highlighting some genuinely hilarious post from politicians, he may like to add the following to his list.EASIEST DEAL IN HISTORY “Coming to a free trade agreement with the EU should be one of the easiest in human history.” – Liam Fox, International Trade Secretary, July 2017. A 24-HOUR BREXIT “The day after we vote to leave, we hold all the cards and we can choose the path we want.” – Michael Gove, Secretary of State for Environment, April 2016. WHAT IS IT WITH THESE GUYS AND “HOLDING THE CARDS”? “Getting out of the EU can be quick and easy – the UK holds most of the cards.” John Redwood, Conservative MP, July 2016. Plenty more where they came from but let's not go there ! [/quote] They are all on my list but keep em coming I like to remind myself of the rubbish that was used con people.
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Post by nws on Jul 9, 2019 22:46:28 GMT
So I was right. You were lying. "nobody knows that global warming and the thinning ozone layer are not part of the Cycle of time lets face it millions of years ago you had dinosaurs mooching around eating their greens and farting all day long as well as Neolithic man building huge fires to cook his Mcdactly burger on" We will ignore that man never existed at the same time as dinosaurs (although I'm not entirely sure you are suggesting that). I'm not quite sure that I'm ready to ignore the whole army of scientists who are telling us that we are now in an era where climate is affected by us. It's just selfish laziness and 'I'm alright Jack' attitude to ignore it. Brexit - The 'democratic' vote that may well have seen electoral fraud committed. Ok. Incidentally, we have just seen the head of the WTO speak out and tell us that the latest line about GATT 24 peddled by leave voters is a lie. Can I just ask why leavers will tell me that the 2017 Parliament saw 83% of people vote for parties that support brexit and thus there is a massive mandate for Brexit while simultaneously claiming that we have a remain parliament that is blocking brexit. Please also note that you would have had brexit if the ERG had voted for May's deal. Instead they blocked it. I was not lying, I was tired and today I am very,very ill and in pain that even Tramadol is struggling to control and more worryingly I have twice coughed up blood. Should i wake up tomorrow my opinions will not change let's just see if I live long enough to see you proved wrong about Brexit and the effects on our lives. Mate. That sounds awful. I hope you are feeling better tomorrow. If brexit does happen then believe you me, nothing will give me greater pleasure than to be proven wrong. To be proven right means a level of devastation to our society and I don't want that
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Post by Bernie on Jul 10, 2019 5:35:06 GMT
Will of the country? 75% of those eligible voted, 53% of those in favour so in fact only about 40% of the electorate supported Brexit. If you don't vote, your vote doesn't count. Unused votes don't get divided up among the losers. That's not how it works.
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Post by 61666 on Jul 10, 2019 8:06:04 GMT
Listening and reading around the various opinions about BoJo and Hunt (I even read the Mail while waiting at the dentist's), what continues to worry me is the way BoJo is seen to have 'charisma' and Hunt is 'a safe pair of hands'. Mmmm... Unfortunately, so far at least, neither seem to have said anything of substance about Brexit, other than we are definitely leaving. Fine, except that how we are leaving flies in the face of all we already know, namely that technology will not solve the Irish border, nor will GATT 24 enable continued trading with the EU in the event of a no deal. Where are the new teams of negotiators who are going to magically sort a new deal in three months? How will no deal get past a parliament that clearly doesn't want it? Charisma? Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin and many other dictators had in plenty and so did Kennedy, and Churchill I suppose. But will it solve Brexit or bring economic prosperity? Only to the already rich and well heeled, I fear. Safe pair of hands? Wasn't that Theresa May, so is more of the same going to work better this time? The ideology of the other parties (discounting Labour, it pains me to admit) could be attractive, depending on your leanings, but in a country as conservative (note the small c) as the UK, until first past the post is replaced by proportional voting, the two big parties will always prevail. I certainly don't want to see Farage and his loonies in power, while the idea of him being our next US ambassador beggars belief, but somehow the political roundabout needs changing. A JS and HH to create a whole new team and get us back in the premier League, or carry on as we are and slide down the rankings to lower leagues? Note the MU analogy at the end, please!
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Post by headstone on Jul 10, 2019 10:31:32 GMT
And it had been so quiet....
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Post by nws on Jul 10, 2019 11:46:40 GMT
Will of the country? 75% of those eligible voted, 53% of those in favour so in fact only about 40% of the electorate supported Brexit. If you don't vote, your vote doesn't count. Unused votes don't get divided up among the losers. That's not how it works. I think he just counted and offered fact based on that counting. If your vote doesn't count when you don't vote then how can you claim 'will of the country'. Will of the country would need over 50% of people to vote for something. 50% of the country didn't vote for it. The correct sentence should be 'will of those that bothered to vote'.
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Post by nws on Jul 10, 2019 11:51:05 GMT
Listening and reading around the various opinions about BoJo and Hunt (I even read the Mail while waiting at the dentist's), what continues to worry me is the way BoJo is seen to have 'charisma' and Hunt is 'a safe pair of hands'. Mmmm... Unfortunately, so far at least, neither seem to have said anything of substance about Brexit, other than we are definitely leaving. Fine, except that how we are leaving flies in the face of all we already know, namely that technology will not solve the Irish border, nor will GATT 24 enable continued trading with the EU in the event of a no deal. Where are the new teams of negotiators who are going to magically sort a new deal in three months? How will no deal get past a parliament that clearly doesn't want it? Charisma? Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin and many other dictators had in plenty and so did Kennedy, and Churchill I suppose. But will it solve Brexit or bring economic prosperity? Only to the already rich and well heeled, I fear. Safe pair of hands? Wasn't that Theresa May, so is more of the same going to work better this time? The ideology of the other parties (discounting Labour, it pains me to admit) could be attractive, depending on your leanings, but in a country as conservative (note the small c) as the UK, until first past the post is replaced by proportional voting, the two big parties will always prevail. I certainly don't want to see Farage and his loonies in power, while the idea of him being our next US ambassador beggars belief, but somehow the political roundabout needs changing. A JS and HH to create a whole new team and get us back in the premier League, or carry on as we are and slide down the rankings to lower leagues? Note the MU analogy at the end, please! Would leavers care to comment on the two highlighted facts (the second one should read continue trading without tariffs). Just to emphasise, they won't be solved by me believing more or stopping talking the country down or whatever vacuous phrase is doing the rounds this week. I really would like to know answers to what technology is going to be used to solve the NI border (and thus remove the need for the backstop) and what level of tariffs leavers believe we should have (i.e. what sort of damage/benefit will those tariffs bring)?
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Post by Bernie on Jul 10, 2019 12:05:01 GMT
If you don't vote, your vote doesn't count. Unused votes don't get divided up among the losers. That's not how it works. I think he just counted and offered fact based on that counting. If your vote doesn't count when you don't vote then how can you claim 'will of the country'. Will of the country would need over 50% of people to vote for something. 50% of the country didn't vote for it. The correct sentence should be 'will of those that bothered to vote'. Those were the rules of the referendum, or any election. You could just as easily say fewer than 48% voted to Remain. If you can't be bothered to vote, you're not lumped in with those who make the effort. The only power we possess is our vote, which is why elections and referenda must be implemented.
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