Peace, prosperity and friendship with all nations.

[Deleted]

Jul 2, 2019 15:46:05 GMT nick said:

Jul 2, 2019 9:37:42 GMT daveu said:

OK. Just to clear this up once and for all. I just spoke to Bill on another matter and he has confirmed that the club do in fact count non attending season ticket holders and always have done. There are several reason for this:

A. Our turnstiles while they do have a clicker aren't automatically linked to a counting system
B. When working out catering, required police, stewarding etc they have to assume that everyone who has a ticket will attend.
C. It's a lot easier especially when people expect to know the attendance by half time.
D. Not as important but virtually all clubs do it.

So I apologise for my intransigence on the subject and fully admit to being wrong, although only repeating in good faith what I was told (although evidently not by Bill as I originally thought). I still don't see why people get so annoyed by it though, it's not as if the club is committing some kind of fraud or artificially inflating attendances for some dishonest reason, it's simply for operational reasons.

Daveu you are quite a  'remarkable' person.

So many supporters including myself had long come to the conclusion that the club must be counting non attending STH's simply by applying the evidence of our eyes.

This was never a criticism of the club, just an observation, but for some reason you went nuts whenever we declared this view.

You always vehemently declared that we were somehow undermining the club and questioning the integrity of the owners.

You repeatedly asserted that we were totally wrong as a matter of fact and you always had it 'on good authority' that non attending STH's were excluded from the official attendance.

Nobody was trying to have a go at the club and it is you more than anybody that has added fuel to the fire by maintaining that you were supporting the club's position.

But you weren't correct were you ? You were not supporting the club's official policy.  All the time you have been wrong on this subject.

Surly you must be feeling just a shade embarrassed now the truth is out ?

Anyway, hats off for the apology and finally putting this crucial issue to bed.

As I said, I was only repeating in good faith what I was told. Obviously I mis-remembered who it was who told me, but it was after a game when I commented on the apparent discrepancy between the perceived size of the crowd and the announced attendance and someone in the corporate section responded that the figure stated was the people who came through the turnstile.

[Deleted]

Mis-remembered. Forgot even

[stewart]

Whatever happened to George mclelan

[Deleted]

Last heard of on a beach somewhere......

[Deleted]

Jul 2, 2019 9:37:42 GMT daveu said:

OK. Just to clear this up once and for all. I just spoke to Bill on another matter and he has confirmed that the club do in fact count non attending season ticket holders and always have done. There are several reason for this:

A. Our turnstiles while they do have a clicker aren't automatically linked to a counting system
B. When working out catering, required police, stewarding etc they have to assume that everyone who has a ticket will attend.
C. It's a lot easier especially when people expect to know the attendance by half time.
D. Not as important but virtually all clubs do it.

So I apologise for my intransigence on the subject and fully admit to being wrong, although only repeating in good faith what I was told (although evidently not by Bill as I originally thought). I still don't see why people get so annoyed by it though, it's not as if the club is committing some kind of fraud or artificially inflating attendances for some dishonest reason, it's simply for operational reasons.

Sad, if true. I had more faith in MUFC than this (even after Clowngate). But Bill's answer raises a number of questions.

A) You don't need an automatic link in a ground as small as ours. Each turnstile operator simply tots up their figures and takes them to the office. Not exactly difficult.

B) Fine, but has nothing to do with the published attendance. Perfectly possible to have two numbers - the one you estimate for catering, etc, and the actual one you publish.

C) You have 45 minutes, 30 minimum, to add up half a dozen figures. How long does it take??

D) If true, why? Surely there's an FA and NL rule on this? There is for everything else. Apart from the embarrassment of situations like last season's phantom fans, which made us look entirely amateur, if clubs can effectively make up their attendance figures, how does this impact on the revenue from Cup games?

All in all, Bill's answers don't really resolve anything - they just create more questions and confusion. And, if he is right, and some clubs count accurately and some don't, what's the point of attendance tables? You might as well just rank clubs by the number of season tickets sold.

[Deleted]

Jul 3, 2019 8:48:01 GMT @johndaubneyslegs said:

Jul 2, 2019 9:37:42 GMT daveu said:

OK. Just to clear this up once and for all. I just spoke to Bill on another matter and he has confirmed that the club do in fact count non attending season ticket holders and always have done. There are several reason for this:

A. Our turnstiles while they do have a clicker aren't automatically linked to a counting system
B. When working out catering, required police, stewarding etc they have to assume that everyone who has a ticket will attend.
C. It's a lot easier especially when people expect to know the attendance by half time.
D. Not as important but virtually all clubs do it.

So I apologise for my intransigence on the subject and fully admit to being wrong, although only repeating in good faith what I was told (although evidently not by Bill as I originally thought). I still don't see why people get so annoyed by it though, it's not as if the club is committing some kind of fraud or artificially inflating attendances for some dishonest reason, it's simply for operational reasons.

Sad, if true. I had more faith in MUFC than this (even after Clowngate). But Bill's answer raises a number of questions.

A) You don't need an automatic link in a ground as small as ours. Each turnstile operator simply tots up their figures and takes them to the office. Not exactly difficult.

B) Fine, but has nothing to do with the published attendance. Perfectly possible to have two numbers - the one you estimate for catering, etc, and the actual one you publish.

C) You have 45 minutes, 30 minimum, to add up half a dozen figures. How long does it take??

D) If true, why? Surely there's an FA and NL rule on this? There is for everything else. Apart from the embarrassment of situations like last season's phantom fans, which made us look entirely amateur, if clubs can effectively make up their attendance figures, how does this impact on the revenue from Cup games?

All in all, Bill's answers don't really resolve anything - they just create more questions and confusion. And, if he is right, and some clubs count accurately and some don't, what's the point of attendance tables? You might as well just rank clubs by the number of season tickets sold.

Why are you so determined to see this as a negative. Christ almighty, you really are desperate to beat the club up over everything aren't you. Why not just accept my apology and move on.

[Deleted]

Jul 3, 2019 9:10:35 GMT daveu said:

Jul 3, 2019 8:48:01 GMT @johndaubneyslegs said:

Sad, if true. I had more faith in MUFC than this (even after Clowngate). But Bill's answer raises a number of questions.

A) You don't need an automatic link in a ground as small as ours. Each turnstile operator simply tots up their figures and takes them to the office. Not exactly difficult.

B) Fine, but has nothing to do with the published attendance. Perfectly possible to have two numbers - the one you estimate for catering, etc, and the actual one you publish.

C) You have 45 minutes, 30 minimum, to add up half a dozen figures. How long does it take??

D) If true, why? Surely there's an FA and NL rule on this? There is for everything else. Apart from the embarrassment of situations like last season's phantom fans, which made us look entirely amateur, if clubs can effectively make up their attendance figures, how does this impact on the revenue from Cup games?

All in all, Bill's answers don't really resolve anything - they just create more questions and confusion. And, if he is right, and some clubs count accurately and some don't, what's the point of attendance tables? You might as well just rank clubs by the number of season tickets sold.

Why are you so determined to see this as a negative. Christ almighty, you really are desperate to beat the club up over everything aren't you. Why not just accept my apology and move on.

This board is so emotionally charged at the moment. I can't wait until we can go back to getting upset about football again.

[butlerisalegend]

Jul 3, 2019 8:48:01 GMT @johndaubneyslegs said:

Jul 2, 2019 9:37:42 GMT daveu said:

OK. Just to clear this up once and for all. I just spoke to Bill on another matter and he has confirmed that the club do in fact count non attending season ticket holders and always have done. There are several reason for this:

A. Our turnstiles while they do have a clicker aren't automatically linked to a counting system
B. When working out catering, required police, stewarding etc they have to assume that everyone who has a ticket will attend.
C. It's a lot easier especially when people expect to know the attendance by half time.
D. Not as important but virtually all clubs do it.

So I apologise for my intransigence on the subject and fully admit to being wrong, although only repeating in good faith what I was told (although evidently not by Bill as I originally thought). I still don't see why people get so annoyed by it though, it's not as if the club is committing some kind of fraud or artificially inflating attendances for some dishonest reason, it's simply for operational reasons.

Sad, if true. I had more faith in MUFC than this (even after Clowngate). But Bill's answer raises a number of questions.

A) You don't need an automatic link in a ground as small as ours. Each turnstile operator simply tots up their figures and takes them to the office. Not exactly difficult.

B) Fine, but has nothing to do with the published attendance. Perfectly possible to have two numbers - the one you estimate for catering, etc, and the actual one you publish.

C) You have 45 minutes, 30 minimum, to add up half a dozen figures. How long does it take??

D) If true, why? Surely there's an FA and NL rule on this? There is for everything else. Apart from the embarrassment of situations like last season's phantom fans, which made us look entirely amateur, if clubs can effectively make up their attendance figures, how does this impact on the revenue from Cup games?

All in all, Bill's answers don't really resolve anything - they just create more questions and confusion. And, if he is right, and some clubs count accurately and some don't, what's the point of attendance tables? You might as well just rank clubs by the number of season tickets sold.

Jeez DOES IT MATTER?
BIlls answers don’t resolve anything? What is there to resolve? He has given the answers and I thought that would be the end of it but then I remembered you were here...........

[Deleted]

Jul 3, 2019 9:10:35 GMT daveu said:

Jul 3, 2019 8:48:01 GMT @johndaubneyslegs said:

Sad, if true. I had more faith in MUFC than this (even after Clowngate). But Bill's answer raises a number of questions.

A) You don't need an automatic link in a ground as small as ours. Each turnstile operator simply tots up their figures and takes them to the office. Not exactly difficult.

B) Fine, but has nothing to do with the published attendance. Perfectly possible to have two numbers - the one you estimate for catering, etc, and the actual one you publish.

C) You have 45 minutes, 30 minimum, to add up half a dozen figures. How long does it take??

D) If true, why? Surely there's an FA and NL rule on this? There is for everything else. Apart from the embarrassment of situations like last season's phantom fans, which made us look entirely amateur, if clubs can effectively make up their attendance figures, how does this impact on the revenue from Cup games?

All in all, Bill's answers don't really resolve anything - they just create more questions and confusion. And, if he is right, and some clubs count accurately and some don't, what's the point of attendance tables? You might as well just rank clubs by the number of season tickets sold.

Why are you so determined to see this as a negative. Christ almighty, you really are desperate to beat the club up over everything aren't you. Why not just accept my apology and move on.

Why is it always about YOU, Dave??

I was addressing Bill's comments, not your post. I'm not being negative in the least, just making some rather obvious points about a topic that interests me (on a discussion board, God help me!).

How you can see this as "attacking the club" (or you!), is beyond me.

[Deleted]

Jul 3, 2019 13:30:44 GMT @johndaubneyslegs said:

Jul 3, 2019 9:10:35 GMT daveu said:

Why are you so determined to see this as a negative. Christ almighty, you really are desperate to beat the club up over everything aren't you. Why not just accept my apology and move on.

Why is it always about YOU, Dave??

I was addressing Bill's comments, not your post. I'm not being negative in the least, just making some rather obvious points about a topic that interests me (on a discussion board, God help me!).

How you can see this as "attacking the club" (or you!), is beyond me.

So calling it embarrassing and making us look amateur isn't negative then?

[Deleted]

I'm putting all this hyperbole down to pre season tension and nervous energy.
Soonest we start playing football again we may give each other a bit more slack.
On the other hand - - - -

[Deleted]

Jul 3, 2019 13:39:00 GMT daveu said:

Jul 3, 2019 13:30:44 GMT @johndaubneyslegs said:

Why is it always about YOU, Dave??

I was addressing Bill's comments, not your post. I'm not being negative in the least, just making some rather obvious points about a topic that interests me (on a discussion board, God help me!).

How you can see this as "attacking the club" (or you!), is beyond me.

So calling it embarrassing and making us look amateur isn't negative then?

He's still harking back to the old amateur days when we played in the Athenian or Corinthian or whatever league.

But at least he hasn't mention Mills for the last couple of posts.

[Deleted]

I'm putting it down to mental illness.

[Deleted]

Jul 3, 2019 15:26:21 GMT @testosterstone said:

Jul 3, 2019 13:39:00 GMT daveu said:

So calling it embarrassing and making us look amateur isn't negative then?

He's still harking back to the old amateur days when we played in the Athenian or Corinthian or whatever league.

But at least he hasn't mention Mills for the last couple of posts.

You did though

[Deleted]

Jul 3, 2019 9:10:35 GMT daveu said:

Jul 3, 2019 8:48:01 GMT @johndaubneyslegs said:

Sad, if true. I had more faith in MUFC than this (even after Clowngate). But Bill's answer raises a number of questions.

A) You don't need an automatic link in a ground as small as ours. Each turnstile operator simply tots up their figures and takes them to the office. Not exactly difficult.

B) Fine, but has nothing to do with the published attendance. Perfectly possible to have two numbers - the one you estimate for catering, etc, and the actual one you publish.

C) You have 45 minutes, 30 minimum, to add up half a dozen figures. How long does it take??

D) If true, why? Surely there's an FA and NL rule on this? There is for everything else. Apart from the embarrassment of situations like last season's phantom fans, which made us look entirely amateur, if clubs can effectively make up their attendance figures, how does this impact on the revenue from Cup games?

All in all, Bill's answers don't really resolve anything - they just create more questions and confusion. And, if he is right, and some clubs count accurately and some don't, what's the point of attendance tables? You might as well just rank clubs by the number of season tickets sold.

Why are you so determined to see this as a negative. Christ almighty, you really are desperate to beat the club up over everything aren't you. Why not just accept my apology and move on.

Because its where JDL thrives. The cesspool of negativity.