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Post by ontheup on Apr 6, 2014 20:17:59 GMT
I think it is appalling that a team who obviously are punching above there weight in the financial stakes are dreaming of league football, this will all end in tears, Christ they went bust a few years ago and have somehow managed to get themselves into a similar position, don't these people realise that they have hit a level way above where they should be and maybe lower their expectations, better to be playing in a league a couple below the conference than having no team whatsoever But Toon what do you expect when they are playing in a league that has no interest in admitting well run clubs? Eastleigh, Whitehawk, Ebbsfleet....watch this space!
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Post by Sennockian69 on Apr 6, 2014 21:22:21 GMT
It's called living the dream. Pity when you wake up you realise it was a nightmare.
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Post by ontheup on Apr 7, 2014 11:25:52 GMT
Let me get this straight,
we're trying to get into a league who have lost their main sponsor, who have a club who have already resigned because of increasing costs, another of their teams was unable to play their first few fixtures (sorry Ant), a club who have now admitted they can't sustain current funding levels, a club on the verge of being bankrupt, clubs with association to illegal betting, they had a legal battle hanging over their head, a chairman who claims to have been waiting for leadership from the FA without showing leadership themselves not forgetting the use of "We will not be blackmailed".....
...and yet they have an issue with a FIFA approved pitch which was installed to ensure the club was sustainable and engaged the local community.
Whether you are anti 3G or pro 3G you couldn't make this up....
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Post by stonesthrowp on Apr 7, 2014 13:57:55 GMT
Let me get this straight, we're trying to get into a league who have lost their main sponsor, who have a club who have already resigned because of increasing costs, another of their teams was unable to play their first few fixtures (sorry Ant), a club who have now admitted they can't sustain current funding levels, a club on the verge of being bankrupt, clubs with association to illegal betting, they had a legal battle hanging over their head, a chairman who claims to have been waiting for leadership from the FA without showing leadership themselves not forgetting the use of "We will not be blackmailed"..... ...and yet they have an issue with a FIFA approved pitch which was installed to ensure the club was sustainable and engaged the local community. Whether you are anti 3G or pro 3G you couldn't make this up....
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Post by stonesthrowp on Apr 7, 2014 16:40:54 GMT
I meant to say in response to Ontheup that I don't think it was illegal betting associated with clubs but rather match-fixing by players. Two of the three clubs are now in the Ryman Premier. I think it is going a little overboard to lay all sorts of ills on the the Conference because of the 3G debacle. An interesting point made by Ontheup is that of attendances. I have long thought there ought to be a threshold grading for attendance. The Conference South attendances are surprisingly low and some clubs are woeful. Should they be in the CS? A club with a good fan base has longevity. Poor attendances diminish and distort a league. The legal entity of a club may change i.e. a new limited company or trust but the fans remain there. Is AFC Wimbledon the real Wimbledon FC? Yes.
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Post by ontheup on Apr 8, 2014 10:02:25 GMT
I meant to say in response to Ontheup that I don't think it was illegal betting associated with clubs but rather match-fixing by players. Two of the three clubs are now in the Ryman Premier. I think it is going a little overboard to lay all sorts of ills on the the Conference because of the 3G debacle. An interesting point made by Ontheup is that of attendances. I have long thought there ought to be a threshold grading for attendance. The Conference South attendances are surprisingly low and some clubs are woeful. Should they be in the CS? A club with a good fan base has longevity. Poor attendances diminish and distort a league. The legal entity of a club may change i.e. a new limited company or trust but the fans remain there. Is AFC Wimbledon the real Wimbledon FC? Yes. Indeed Stonesthrowp, I probably did them a disservice, I should have put "conference South players who were alleged to have been involved with an international betting syndicate that tried to fix matches that members would gamble on" So my apologies for suggesting the betting was illegal, weren't Whitehawk also involved? I do take your point though re laying ills on the conference and appreciate this is a little overboard, however my point was really questioning what exactly the conference board do. In recent months with the vote going against 3G they have played the line "it would be against our members wishes" etc etc....as if in some way of protecting it's member clubs.....I don't see too much protection of it's members away from 3G is my point. I remember a highly provocative tweet/message sent to Oliver from the Conference officical twitter feed suggesting Oliver try and engage with the conference rather than try and bully them into a corner.....conveniently forgetting the fact Oliver had tried to engage a number of times, only to have the door shut in his face. If the Conference had genuinely done their homework on the 3G issue they would have known about Olivers letter to Greg Dyke, they would have known their members were voting against a FIFA approved pitch, they would have known who the Minister for Sports constituency was........the point is, they thought (wrongly) they were taking on Maidstone United Football Club...which is why their chairman could band about phrases like "Blackmail" and allowed other chairmen to quote "rules and rules and in my opinion that's not the way to do business" I appreciate the Conference hands were tied somewhat, but this notable change in attitude from the Conference since the FA have got involved and the claim that "believe it or not we were just waiting for direction from above" suggests they are squirming. Good point about crowds and whilst I agree with you to a certain extent, there will always be clubs who attract "money men" who are willing to plough mountains of cash into clubs and distort the income/outgoing ratio and if you blocked these clubs based on attendances it would make a mockery of leagues below. If you take Whitehawk for example, no matter how much we'd like to think players would prefer to play at as higher level as possible.....if you pay them enough, they will settle for playing in front of 200 people as their bank balance takes priority (understandable) In terms of the ground, having seen how many Luton took to Dartford, it is clear our ground is too small.....and I fully support the directors in the way they are looking to expand the ground. Even if we don't get promoted this season or next it's important we have the ground that would facilitate a large away following, and as much as Luton will be going up this season, it looks like Northampton (who average 4K at home) look like they are coming down.....and what if Aldershot get relegated into Conf South this season. I'm pretty sure within 3 or 4 years we will get a "BIG" FA Cup tie where we would potentially have to switch venues. Wealdstone, as much as it's a nice problem to have, they have a capacity at the Vale of under 3,000, as far as I'm aware they only have one set of turnstyles as well. I'm not in any way suggesting they couldn't cope but if they have aspirations of going up to Conf Prem then I imagine it would involve a lot of work being done on their ground. Interesting as well that an injury often associated (although relatively unproven) with 3G pitches has just put a Southampton player out of this years World Cup.....injury caused by a grass pitch belonging to one of the worlds richest football clubs......I wish Mr Rodriguez well
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Post by preciousstone on Apr 10, 2014 18:12:20 GMT
Second reply from the FA - now being far more cagey; 'we shall have to discuss with the relevant Department.....' Now, it's getting interesting....... What reply is that? To whom? To what?
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Post by daveu on Apr 11, 2014 7:00:49 GMT
Or maybe that the person who received your email didn't know the answer or even who to ask.
Sent from my HTC Desire C using Tapatalk
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Post by ontheup on Apr 11, 2014 8:49:16 GMT
Hello Daveu - ah, but the first e-mail had already been 'consulted upon' , resulting in a (to be frank) 'fob-me-off' answer.It has also taken much longer than would be usual for a reply - and it's taking even longer to get a proper reply.Only my opinion, but I suspect that they want to hold off until after the meeting. You mean they didn't give you the answer "we wont be blackmailed by Maidstone United" or "It is in my opinion not the way to do business?" Having had a quick check on tomorrows opponents forum I noticed a "3G debate" thread and what is quite common is a couple of anti 3G posters who are so anti, they start writing quite ridiculous things, on the Enfield forum is someone ironically named "Voice of Reason", and to give you an idea, here are some of his reasonable arguments...... I find the anti-football I have seen not to be to my taste, but accept that some will be defensive of it out of club loyalty Finding solutions that preserve the integrity of proper football might take some thought and investment What is almost as dreadful as the anti football on these pitches is the attitude of those in favour of them. If you point out, quite reasonably, the loss of the need to adapt when playing on anti football pitches, you get called a dinosaur and worse. If you suggest that these pitches offer an unfair familiarity advantage to the home team, more name calling exists. If you wonder how many league games Maidstone have lost at home this season, the answer is not a subjective one. It is all very well playing the revenue card, but if people like watching proper football, rather than tippy tap, they will go elsewhere to do so. Proper football involves different skills to tippy tap. If people prefer the latter, that is their choice, but trying to impose it on those who don't like it or want it is arrogant...in my opinion at least. they play on a surface that is anti football Well it might make financial sense to sell your soul/ grandmother too, it doesn't necessarily make it right, though. If you are so desperate to watch this kind of stuff, the opportunity is there for you to do so, You might need to get a victim mentality if you choose the likes of Maidstone, but you have a choice. ...reasoned argument doesn't go down well with the synthetic sycophants! What is a bit rich is apologists for tippy tap pitches seizing on the effects of an exceptionally wet period for their own argument's ends. But life and football are not all about money to some people (someone replied But clubs survival IS all about money) Awesome stuff, to the extent that another poster actually (genuinely) questioned if Voice of Reason was real !
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2014 9:54:48 GMT
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Post by ade on Apr 11, 2014 11:25:36 GMT
By allowing 3G does not mean that any other club has to install it. Everyone else can continue to play on grass/ mud if that is what they want. Any team playing us away( Gallagher) will get the opportunity of playing a passing game just once a season so what is their real problem?
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Post by jt on Apr 11, 2014 11:40:52 GMT
PEOPLE FEAR CHANGE
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Post by russc on Apr 11, 2014 12:10:15 GMT
I fear text in 36pt Impact font, so following your post I'm off to see my therapist
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Post by preciousstone on Apr 11, 2014 12:23:09 GMT
Hello Daveu - ah, but the first e-mail had already been 'consulted upon' , resulting in a (to be frank) 'fob-me-off' answer.It has also taken much longer than would be usual for a reply - and it's taking even longer to get a proper reply.Only my opinion, but I suspect that they want to hold off until after the meeting. You mean they didn't give you the answer "we wont be blackmailed by Maidstone United" or "It is in my opinion not the way to do business?" Having had a quick check on tomorrows opponents forum I noticed a "3G debate" thread and what is quite common is a couple of anti 3G posters who are so anti, they start writing quite ridiculous things, on the Enfield forum is someone ironically named "Voice of Reason", and to give you an idea, here are some of his reasonable arguments...... I find the anti-football I have seen not to be to my taste, but accept that some will be defensive of it out of club loyalty Finding solutions that preserve the integrity of proper football might take some thought and investment What is almost as dreadful as the anti football on these pitches is the attitude of those in favour of them. If you point out, quite reasonably, the loss of the need to adapt when playing on anti football pitches, you get called a dinosaur and worse. If you suggest that these pitches offer an unfair familiarity advantage to the home team, more name calling exists. If you wonder how many league games Maidstone have lost at home this season, the answer is not a subjective one. It is all very well playing the revenue card, but if people like watching proper football, rather than tippy tap, they will go elsewhere to do so. Proper football involves different skills to tippy tap. If people prefer the latter, that is their choice, but trying to impose it on those who don't like it or want it is arrogant...in my opinion at least. they play on a surface that is anti football Well it might make financial sense to sell your soul/ grandmother too, it doesn't necessarily make it right, though. If you are so desperate to watch this kind of stuff, the opportunity is there for you to do so, You might need to get a victim mentality if you choose the likes of Maidstone, but you have a choice. ...reasoned argument doesn't go down well with the synthetic sycophants! What is a bit rich is apologists for tippy tap pitches seizing on the effects of an exceptionally wet period for their own argument's ends. But life and football are not all about money to some people (someone replied But clubs survival IS all about money) Awesome stuff, to the extent that another poster actually (genuinely) questioned if Voice of Reason was real ! Fortunately it's not about these sorts of nutters anymore; it's about the FA being so behind 3G now they are prepared to bring Ryman and Conf to order. It is unthinkable that we could possibly get to win play-offs - ok it's a long shot - and then not be allowed up. The argument is won, it's over, the FA have ridden in to sort it out
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Post by jt on Apr 11, 2014 12:23:32 GMT
Russ,
I can recommend a good one
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