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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2021 10:23:11 GMT
I rest my case your honour, there is no helping someone who does not know that he needs it. Just get back for your endless and pointless search for lies. I think there is a sheep farmer in Shetland who only declared 3609 sheep to HMRC and I'm sure he has 3610.The effect this will have on the British economy and the border between him and Farmer McFartfeatures pig farm will be devastating not to mention that discounting of one sheep could put 2 euros on a pint in some piss drenched pub in Covid laden Benidorm. You were claiming an obsession with brexit. I replied without talking about brexit and you cite this as evidence of an obsession with brexit. OK. As I have said many times my mind us not right at the moment and my friends death has not made it any clearer. I do not even remember writing that post and it was only yesterday☹ Ps.i was claiming your obsession with not only Brexit but politics and lies in general. You are probably one of the 0.0001% of people in the country that actually care about any of it. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2021 17:39:12 GMT
Perhaps the test is knowing what we know now, would the country vote to join the EU? If a new generation starts asking that all of our counterparts on the continent are in it & have free movement of 27 to live & work, so why are we also not in it as major G7?
I think it’s highly unlikely the so-called European question will arise in any serious way, ever. This is for the following reasons.
The costs of being outside the EU are not that large. Part of the reason Brexit was so politically controversial and socially divisive, was that many people assumed the costs of leaving the EU would be enormous.
As has become clear from the first six months of Brexit, the costs of leaving were not very high at all, and almost invisible relative to the economy as a whole.
If the costs of leaving weren’t that large, the same can be said of the benefits of membership.
The past 20 years have been very poor for the EU. What should we expect the next 20 years to look like? Look back at the past 20 years and ask yourself, what exactly has the EU achieved? Economically, it has lagged every other region of the world. Italy has not grown since the Euro currency was introduced.
The EU has lurched from crisis to crisis, from overriding democracy in France, Denmark and Ireland, to the Greek debt crisis, to the Syrian refugee crisis, to Brexit and to the Covid vaccination scheme.
Take each of these major challenges faced by the EU. It has bungled every single one of them. Yet, as if to conceal the featherweight arguments for its existence, its style of politics has become ever-more authoritarian.
Say you looked at the EU afresh from today and asked yourself “should we want to be part of that?” I bet the vast majority of people would answer “no bloody way”. The EU is hardly making a great case for itself. I’d be amazed if this changed in the next generation.
The sovereignty implications of membership are now clear. The controversy over membership during the 1970s was largely because people were unsure of the sovereignty implications. Now they’re clear. If the EU continues along its current path, they’ll be even clearer.
The costs of joining the EU will increase over time. In the next generation, it’s likely the UK will diverge significantly from EU law. Likewise, it will have a wide range of bilateral and multilateral trading relationships that would need to be unwound.
A debate on joining is likely to fall at the first hurdle, as soon as someone mentions all the EU laws we’d have to adopt, the native ones we’d have to drop and the global trading relationships we’d have to unwind.
The burden of proof will have changed. In the 2016 referendum, Leave had to convince people why we shouldn’t be members when we were. This is far harder than arguing for the status quo when we’re already out.
The burden of proof will be on those seeking to persuade us that we should become members. For all the reasons given above, this is likely to be an extremely hard-sell.
Overall. The question appears to assume that “they all have free movement and we don’t” will be some kind of killer argument. Seriously, why? Free movement to live and work in foreign countries is quite a niche thing. For the vast majority, all they care about is going on holiday.
Some people talk about EU membership in almost mystical terms, as if it’s some kind of holy grail. To the world outside, they talk as if “there be dragons”. Cultists are always deluded. EU cultists are no exception.
Overall, the case for joining is likely to be difficult, to say the least.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2021 17:47:38 GMT
Some real Hans Christian Anderson stuff.
Things are so fab after leaving we are currently screaming at the EU about a deal we negotiated, signed and said was brilliant.
Authoritarian and laws. We are currently passing a law that bans people from shouting at a demonstration.
The real reason we would not rejoin is we won't get the deal we had fashioned down the years. We had negotiated no further integration but you just pretend we didn't and bang on about freedom and sovereignty. We've got worse in the first and no change in the second.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2021 18:23:52 GMT
You were claiming an obsession with brexit. I replied without talking about brexit and you cite this as evidence of an obsession with brexit. OK. As I have said many times my mind us not right at the moment and my friends death has not made it any clearer. I do not even remember writing that post and it was only yesterday☹ Ps.i was claiming your obsession with not only Brexit but politics and lies in general. You are probably one of the 0.0001% of people in the country that actually care about any of it. Hey. I'm sorry to hear about your friend. My condolences to you and her family. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2021 0:12:14 GMT
The value of life:
Germany/Belgium* - 120+ killed in floods. Government response: "Catastrophe"
UK - 120+ die of Covid over just the last three days. Government response: "We have to learn to live with Covid"
(*not intended at all to diminish the horror of the European floods - or indeed of the deaths from Covid - just contrasting the apparent value of lives)
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2021 7:07:04 GMT
What you're completely failing to grasp is that covid isn't going to get any better. We could delay lifting restrictions for another month, another 6 months, another year? How long do you carry on for? It's not about the value of life, it's about accepting the inevitable. Thousands die from flu every year but we don't lock down every winter. I will continue to wear a mask in enclosed places, and socially distance where possible but it's absolutely right that we start getting back to normal because the alternative is to keep the restrictions for ever.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2021 7:46:39 GMT
Much as I want to believe the above, there is also much to be concerned about, not least the rest of the world 'watching Johnson's gamble' as the headline in The I says. Add in an online forum of scientists saying we are risking the creation of new variants (don't forget the Alpha one started in Kent) and Javid's prediction of 50k cases a day by the 19th already being passed and the picture is far from rosy.
Meanwhile, the NHS app is causing sufficient mayhem to create warnings of food shortages, with potentially millions expected to self isolate. As for foreign holidays, best not to still seems to be the advice.
At the end of May, the Covid rate for Kent was 12 per 100k. Now it is 230 and rising steadily, while some areas of the country are back to over 1000.
All reasons to be concerned, especially as the government has obviated all responsibility by saying it is now down to individuals. Unfortunately, behaving responsibly is not something that comes naturally to many, which is why Johnson's 'gamble' looks a very risky one to me.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2021 8:41:23 GMT
So disappointing that Johnson's flowery rhetoric demands we all enjoy and trumpet freedom day with its irreversible connotations.
All nonsense of course, individuals will just have to manage the risks as best they can.
There does seem a strong sense of abdication on the part of the government accepting any responsibility for the the lives that we lead.
Why on earth we are leaving it to individual judgement to wear facemasks indoors and enclosed spaces for instance.
With so many idiots around, responsible and careful people will be at their mercy.
God help us.
Social distancing and managing numbers indoors seems so obviously sensible and yet this government is trashing the regulations that underpin the legal framework for compliance.
Great stuff Boris and to think I voted for you !
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2021 22:38:30 GMT
What you're completely failing to grasp is that covid isn't going to get any better. We could delay lifting restrictions for another month, another 6 months, another year? How long do you carry on for? It's not about the value of life, it's about accepting the inevitable. Thousands die from flu every year but we don't lock down every winter. I will continue to wear a mask in enclosed places, and socially distance where possible but it's absolutely right that we start getting back to normal because the alternative is to keep the restrictions for ever. Flooding probably ain't getting any better. You are going to wear a mask in enclosed places and socially distance. Why can't the government legislate and/or give advice on these things instead of encouraging a free for all? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2021 7:35:25 GMT
What you're completely failing to grasp is that covid isn't going to get any better. We could delay lifting restrictions for another month, another 6 months, another year? How long do you carry on for? It's not about the value of life, it's about accepting the inevitable. Thousands die from flu every year but we don't lock down every winter. I will continue to wear a mask in enclosed places, and socially distance where possible but it's absolutely right that we start getting back to normal because the alternative is to keep the restrictions for ever. Flooding probably ain't getting any better. You are going to wear a mask in enclosed places and socially distance. Why can't the government legislate and/or give advice on these things instead of encouraging a free for all? Because people are intelligent, responsible and prefer to make their own decisions |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2021 8:15:49 GMT
DU is in effect saying what the government can't or won't because they seem unable to be honest and open enough. Today, their chief scientific modeller is suggesting we could get 100-200k cases A DAY through August. That's a million a week.
Assuming the vaccine does its job, then it is arguable that is a risk worth taking, as per flu and other stuff. Life sucks and then you die, as the saying goes - though I prefer what doesn't kill you makes you stronger.
The issue now is that, by removing all restrictions, the government seem to be racing us towards the herd immunity model that was Plan A last year before everything went tits up. Throw away masks and social distancing and just ride the wave.
Hmmm....
Meanwhile in an attempt to make this footy and MU related, the chances of seeing the start of the season disrupted must be pretty high because of Covid pings. We've already lost the Sutton games, so how many more will be affected? England cricket managed to do very well in putting a second team out against Pakistan, so perhaps the start of the season will see our U11 side taking on Hemel's U11s, as everyone else will be self isolating, including the spectators.🤢
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2021 10:28:03 GMT
Flooding probably ain't getting any better. You are going to wear a mask in enclosed places and socially distance. Why can't the government legislate and/or give advice on these things instead of encouraging a free for all? Because people are intelligent, responsible and prefer to make their own decisions If anything, the last 16 months has proven to me people are definitely not intelligent or responsible, and although preferring to make their own decisions, don't make them with other people in mind. The sensible (logical, but what has this government done to prove they know anything about logic) option, while testing opening up fully would be to still have legislations to wear masks on public transport and in enclosed indoor spaces until a time where it makes sense not to based on actual, irrefutable evidence. I agree this can't carry on forever - but everything is currently against this happening so abruptly. Don't think for a minute BoBo is doing this for any one of us - he promised it and now he doesn't want to lose his ars*hole going back on it. Like a kid who breaks both his legs jumping off a cliff into the sea... |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2021 12:14:29 GMT
Because people are intelligent, responsible and prefer to make their own decisions If anything, the last 16 months has proven to me people are definitely not intelligent or responsible, and although preferring to make their own decisions, don't make them with other people in mind. The sensible (logical, but what has this government done to prove they know anything about logic) option, while testing opening up fully would be to still have legislations to wear masks on public transport and in enclosed indoor spaces until a time where it makes sense not to based on actual, irrefutable evidence. I agree this can't carry on forever - but everything is currently against this happening so abruptly. Don't think for a minute BoBo is doing this for any one of us - he promised it and now he doesn't want to lose his ars*hole going back on it. Like a kid who breaks both his legs jumping off a cliff into the sea...
Look up the meaning of the word "irony"
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2021 12:32:38 GMT
If anything, the last 16 months has proven to me people are definitely not intelligent or responsible, and although preferring to make their own decisions, don't make them with other people in mind. The sensible (logical, but what has this government done to prove they know anything about logic) option, while testing opening up fully would be to still have legislations to wear masks on public transport and in enclosed indoor spaces until a time where it makes sense not to based on actual, irrefutable evidence. I agree this can't carry on forever - but everything is currently against this happening so abruptly. Don't think for a minute BoBo is doing this for any one of us - he promised it and now he doesn't want to lose his ars*hole going back on it. Like a kid who breaks both his legs jumping off a cliff into the sea...
Look up the meaning of the word "irony"
Yep. Nice walk down vocabulary memory lane, thank you. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2021 7:01:17 GMT
Like nostalgia, it ain't what it used to be.
Proof of selfish behaviour is everywhere and blights all the kind, selfless attitudes of the majority. Everything from lorry drivers who insist on blocking two lane dual carriageway while spending five minutes overtaking, to whoever it was blocked the narrow road in my village at 7am this morning, simply because they wouldn't give way. Would have probably cost them all of 30 seconds to wait in the first place, but cost a lot of people a good fifteen minutes while the tangle was sorted out.
Little things like the above show why we need to have enforceable rules because there are just too many dickheads around who can't be trusted.
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