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Post by margate on Sept 27, 2019 12:56:16 GMT
Boris is not the Dictator, nor Rees-Mogg, nor "the Tories"...…..the dictator here is a Parliament that goes beyond its remit to quash a democratic referendum result, and then when the PM tries to enforce that result, that Parliament resorts to going to the Judiciary to stop the PM implementing the democratically voted Brexit. That's scary. Did I imagine it or did Boris and Rees-Mogg vote against leaving the EU on more than one occasion?
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Post by Nick on Sept 27, 2019 13:13:06 GMT
No you didn't imagine it, both Rees-Smug and BoJo have both voted to stop us leaving the EU.
You need to be more like oldboy who never lets the facts get in the way of his prejudices.
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Post by 61666 on Sept 27, 2019 18:59:15 GMT
Ah, so they are allowed to change their minds, but the Leave vote won, so the rest of us are not allowed?!? It would be soooo nice for it all to go away, but as we all know, there is only one way that is going to happen, which will leave 17.4 million people (minus hopefully quite a few who have come to their senses) pissed off. Today we start to hear that maybe, just maybe, a vote of no confidence could result in a caretaker prime minister called Clarke-Corbyn-Beckett (OLE ftang, ftang biscuit barrel), taking the reins to enable an extension to bring some sanity to the proceedings. Trouble is, we then have a general election where gawdonlyknows, will take power, with likewise effect on proceedings. It is the Chinese curse that says 'May you live in interesting times'. Well, we've certainly upset a few of them. However, it was Confucius who said 'It is a wise man who takes the middle path.' The only one I can think that fits that, is to Leave (much as it pains me - no more booze rubs to Calais), but to maintain reasonably close ties with our neighbours. That will still piss off a proportion of the people, including me, but somehow, a way has to be found to break this is impass and the word compromise has to feature. Sadly, not something that exists in Bojos vocabulary and if we end up crashing out without a deal, then we really will be at the far end of a creek called shite.
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Post by johnpearce on Sept 27, 2019 19:10:15 GMT
No you didn't imagine it, both Rees-Smug and BoJo have both voted to stop us leaving the EU. You need to be more like oldboy who never lets the facts get in the way of his prejudices. So if BoJob DOES end up opting to leave without a deal, what sort of precedent does that set for abiding by the law ?!? It’s a f**king law now Boris so you can’t do it. End f**king of.
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Post by daveu on Sept 27, 2019 20:00:00 GMT
No you didn't imagine it, both Rees-Smug and BoJo have both voted to stop us leaving the EU. You need to be more like oldboy who never lets the facts get in the way of his prejudices. So if BoJob DOES end up opting to leave without a deal, what sort of precedent does that set for abiding by the law ?!? It’s a f**king law now Boris so you can’t do it. End f**king of. Unfortunately he doesn't have to break the law. He merely needs to piss off the EU enough that they won't even countenance granting an extension. Meanwhile Boris will claim he always negotiated in good faith and it's all their fault.
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Post by johnpearce on Sept 27, 2019 21:18:00 GMT
So if BoJob DOES end up opting to leave without a deal, what sort of precedent does that set for abiding by the law ?!? It’s a f**king law now Boris so you can’t do it. End f**king of. Unfortunately he doesn't have to break the law. He merely needs to piss off the EU enough that they won't even countenance granting an extension. Meanwhile Boris will claim he always negotiated in good faith and it's all their fault. Yeah I get that Dave but he’d still be going against the law. So still should be stopped !
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Post by headstone on Sept 27, 2019 21:34:37 GMT
Could 61666 explain why leaving the EU means no more booze runs to Calais? I don’t intend to let it stop me! 🍷🍷🍺🥃
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Post by 61666 on Sept 28, 2019 5:36:36 GMT
If we leave, then the current 'duty paid' system, which allows you to buy almost unstoppable nlimited amounts of wine and beer, ends. Instead we go back to 'duty free', where booze is cheaper, but last noted to just four litres of still wine per person. Not worth it then.
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Post by 61666 on Sept 28, 2019 5:38:34 GMT
A pox on predicted text! Almost unlimited wine and beer now. Just four litres of duty free per person post brexit. Good reason to stay?
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Post by HartleyHare on Sept 28, 2019 7:16:57 GMT
A pox on predicted text! Almost unlimited wine and beer now. Just four litres of duty free per person post brexit. Good reason to stay? One of many.
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Post by ade on Sept 28, 2019 8:19:36 GMT
That's big of you, Dave. Doesn't stop her being dead right though. I've never owned a car, been a vegetarian for half my life, was recycling long before the council collected it, buy organic and low food miles whenever I can, had green electricity and gas for 20 years, supported the Greens, FotE, Greenpeace, etc, been on demos - and been mocked for doing all this most of that time. And yet when my 14 and 10 year olds ask me what I've done - what my generation have done - to stop the disaster they are going to live with, I have to hold up my hands and say "nowehere near enough". She's not right. She's a self entitled little bitch. That looks like an unsavoury personal attack of the kind you are always criticising
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Post by daveu on Sept 28, 2019 8:52:06 GMT
She's not right. She's a self entitled little bitch. That looks like an unsavoury personal attack of the kind you are always criticising I was in a foul mood. But however you spin it, she's wrong to condemn past generations. Hindsight is s wonderful thing. Maybe if the could have seen what it would lead to, the industrial Revolution might not have happened. How do we know that measures we take now to combat global warming won't have adverse effects in the future. You can only affect the times you live in and hope you don't destroy the future. But you can never know that what you do today won't cause some future disaster, however well intentioned. No one set out to destroy the environment so for some schoolkid with no experience of the world to condemn entire generations is wrong.
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Post by nws on Sept 29, 2019 7:46:43 GMT
Regardless of your opinions on Boris's honesty and integrity, regardless of whether you believe his motives were the good of the country or his own self interest, what you surely can't deny is his lack of judgement yet again in getting involved in a fight he wasn't going to win. Proroguing parliament was a misjudgement of the highest order to go along with a whole catalogue of (at best) misguided decisions he has made since becoming PM, and even trailing back into his time as foreign secretary and even Mayor of London. Whether you believe he is honest or not, he clearly isn't fit to govern a creche let alone a country. Depends on your view, Dave. You see Boris as lacking judgement and lack of wisdom, others see him as ballsy enough to take on the right path in the light of tremendous opposition and lack of resources in an almost impossible situation to resolve, in a Churchill like fashion others like whereas other like Theresa May (Neville Chamberlain in this scenario) took the "nice" route, tried to please everyone, and got nowhere. His time as Mayor, and in many other roles and jobs he has done (author, journalist etc), were very successful, but that is now all conveniently forgotten and sacrificed on the altar of everyone tearing him down as he records another ballsy attempt to get things done only to be pulled down by the many, many, others in Parliament and the Judiciary with many many other alterior motives between them! I thinks its ludicrous to say this one man is trying to engineer everything for HIS individual personal gain in an absolute circus of many, many others doing that (Corbyn, Bercow, the Liberals, the EU, just about EVERYBODY other than Boris and the people!) - which of, course is rarely mentioned Also, why on earth would he put himself through all of this abuse and attack unless he had that Churchillian streak of trying to do what's right? There are many other ways he could be directing his life to get power, fame or whatever much more effective than this! So why does he persist? Maybe its actually because he IS our modern day Churchill! As I say, its all down to personal views, but the incessant and very personal attacks on him are becoming very unsavoury, and unnescessary. Although you generally shy away from providing facts can I ask why Alex Johnson's time as mayor was successful (ie what did he do that was great?) and why you consider him to have been a successful journalist. He was sacked once (or twice?) for lying.
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Post by nws on Sept 29, 2019 7:53:28 GMT
That looks like an unsavoury personal attack of the kind you are always criticising I was in a foul mood. But however you spin it, she's wrong to condemn past generations. Hindsight is s wonderful thing. Maybe if the could have seen what it would lead to, the industrial Revolution might not have happened. How do we know that measures we take now to combat global warming won't have adverse effects in the future. You can only affect the times you live in and hope you don't destroy the future. But you can never know that what you do today won't cause some future disaster, however well intentioned. No one set out to destroy the environment so for some schoolkid with no experience of the world to condemn entire generations is wrong. So are you saying past generations have not caused the problem we are in? The reality is that she has every right to condemn today's older people. The science on this has been there for several decades and been swept under the carpet or denied. You were condemning today's youth for the things they have and the way they act. Who provided those things and taught them this? Do you have more phones etc etc etc The main point to remember is that each thing we do helps. That could be avoiding a car journey, eating a little less meat, not buying an extra TV etc etc. If millions or even billions of people improve slightly then the outlook improves.
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Post by headstone on Sept 29, 2019 10:20:18 GMT
Exactly! That last para is spot on. So as soon as India and China do their bit, I will join in. In the meantime there is no point, apart from virtue signalling.
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