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Post by sword65 on Jul 31, 2020 22:00:13 GMT
Harrogate fc are set to ground share should they win the playoff final on Sunday as removing 3G and reverting to grass will take them too long and the season is due to start in September. Should not allow them promotion if the ground isnt up to scratch.
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Post by Bernie on Jul 31, 2020 23:05:40 GMT
I thought groundshare for new EFL clubs was forbidden after a certain Kent club went bust. I’m happy to be talking bollocks if not.
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Post by jdl on Jul 31, 2020 23:30:25 GMT
I thought groundshare for new EFL clubs was forbidden after a certain Kent club went bust. I’m happy to be talking bollocks if not. And aren't you allowed a certain period of time to bring your ground up to FL standard (at least a season)? Not sure if this includes 3G pitches, but, given the expence, I can't see why not.
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Post by jdl on Jul 31, 2020 23:31:09 GMT
Long post warning - goldfish should look away now.
The NN play-off (3pm today) will also be of interest to supporters of a certain age, as it features two Alliance League founder members who have had very different histories in and out of the NL. Both have won the NL/Conference/Alliance, but their fortunes after that were very different.
Boston Utd, were a bit of an also-ran club back in the day, reaching a high point of 3rd place just once (and being one of our competitors, alongside Kettering, for the Championship in 89), but otherwise only managing four other top-ten finishes (8, 5, 6 and 8) in 14 years, before being relegated in 93 – one of the last 5 founder clubs to have played every NL season.
They reappeared in the NL eight years later, now a professional club, and, after making 12th place in their first season back, went up to the FL as Champions in just their second season. But all was not well within the club. In their first season in the FL they were docked 4 points after both their manager and former chairman, were charged with breaking the FA's rules over player registration, and both banned. Dagenham and Redbridge were understandably miffed at this, as, had Boston been docked points in the previous season, it would have been D&R going up.
Boston had an indifferent 6 years in the FL, never seriously looking likely to gain promotion and occasionally flirting with relegation, before finally being relegated in 2007. But again they pulled a fast one, this time going into CVA during their last game, so their 10 point punishment would apply to that season, and not cause them problems on their return to the NL. However, they didn’t get away with it this time, with the FA bumping them down to the NN, after HMRC placed a restriction on their CVA. And Boston were relegated again in their first NN season, despite finishing 10th, as they were still in administration.
So a win for them today puts them back in the highest non-league division, after 12 years in the NN/NPL, and a total absence from the NL of 18 years.
Altrincham, as well as having a ridiculously spelt name, had a very different history. At the time of the creation of the Alliance in 1980, they were the kings of non-league football, having about half the England non-league side in their ranks (is the England non-league team still a thing?). Rather predictably they duly won the first season – but, of course, pre-automatic promotion, they stood no chance of getting into the FL, becoming the first of 7 clubs to win the AP/Conf, but not get promoted - a select little group that includes us, and Enfield (twice).
Sadly, and rather surprisingly, that was Altrincham’s last win at that level, despite 6 top-5 finishes and being most fan’s favourite for promotion, they never again managed it, and were finally relegated in 97, a shadow of the former club. In 99 they got back into the NL, but lasted just one season. Five years later, they were back in the NL again, but only managed to finish 2 seasons out of six outside relegation. In the process establishing a record of three successive seasons of last-minute avoidance of relegation due to other clubs’ problems. They were finally relegated in 2011.
Four years later, they made a brief reappearance in the NL, managing just two seasons. So, although they don’t have the record for the most number of relegations from the NL (that honour goes to Barrow, with 5 – Altrincham are joint 2nd with 4, alongside Fleet, Gateshead and Farnborough), they do have the all-time record for finishing in a relegation place – 7! A strange record indeed for a club who were once truly the Man Utd of non-league football.
So, (warning – slightly loaded question) whom do you want to come up? The once great club, still bravely fighting to get back to the top of non-league that was once their natural level. Or a bunch of chancers, who bought their way into the FL, but couldn’t afford to stay there?
Not, of course, that I’ve got anything against clubs that buy their way into the FL and then can’t afford to stay there…
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Post by sword65 on Jul 31, 2020 23:52:33 GMT
Answer to question no.1. Yes the England non league side are still playing but are officially called England C squad Answer to Question no.2 . I would like Alty back where they belong,but I have no animosity towards Boston Utd.
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Post by Sennockian69 on Aug 1, 2020 2:34:05 GMT
You say it so succinctly.
JDL - Altrincham are a more modern day version of Corinthian Casuals who stopped being successful when NL football morphed into semi professionalism.
Also impacted by the 2 sharks in their neighbourhood building themselves bigger aquariums over the years.
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Post by Raymondo316 on Aug 2, 2020 14:58:37 GMT
Looks like Harrogate will be ripping up their pitch tomorrow
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Post by porkystone on Aug 2, 2020 16:07:19 GMT
Looks like Harrogate will be ripping up their pitch tomorrow A great game to watch on the TV, deadline for pitch destruction is next Tuesday - can just imagine all of the Blazers & old gits piling in with the diggers ....
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Post by Raymondo316 on Aug 2, 2020 16:11:49 GMT
Looks like Harrogate will be ripping up their pitch tomorrow A great game to watch on the TV, deadline for pitch destruction is next Tuesday - can just imagine all of the Blazers & old gits piling in with the diggers .... With this happening any chance of 3G being allowed in the Football League is now dead in the water. If any non league club tries to challenge it in the future, the EFL will just point to Harrogate and say ''well they ripped up their pitch to get in the football league, so if you want promotion you will have to do the same''
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Post by sword65 on Aug 2, 2020 16:13:24 GMT
Looks like Harrogate will be ripping up their pitch tomorrow A great game to watch on the TV, deadline for pitch destruction is next Tuesday - can just imagine all of the Blazers & old gits piling in with the diggers .... I concur ,it was a good game. Although I wanted Notts County to win I cannot complain as Harrogate deserved their victory. I will though make a Swordy prediction and that is Harrogate will come straight back down again and ironically replaced by Notts County.
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Post by sword65 on Aug 2, 2020 16:15:16 GMT
A great game to watch on the TV, deadline for pitch destruction is next Tuesday - can just imagine all of the Blazers & old gits piling in with the diggers .... With this happening any chance of 3G being allowed in the Football League is now dead in the water. If any non league club tries to challenge it in the future, the EFL will just point to Harrogate and say ''well they ripped up their pitch to get in the football league, so if you want promotion you will have to do the same'' You are completely right but I think the 3G issue was dead in the water long before today, it's only Oliver that still believes.
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Post by deadly on Aug 2, 2020 16:53:28 GMT
The owners of Harrogate must have a hell of a lot of money to throw away. Tearing up their pitch, ground sharing plus increased EFL costs, not to mention the pandemic. Good luck !
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Post by jdl on Aug 2, 2020 17:03:09 GMT
The new NL is very one-sided once again - 14 southern clubs, 9 northern (almost a two-thirds/one-third split).
But, more interesting is the makeup of the northern clubs - only 3 are non-league, the other 6 are all ex-EFL.
For the soiuthern clubs, it's the other way round - with 8 non-league, and only 4 ex-EFL (all of whom are actually ex-non-league!).
So, if your count clubs like D&R and Barnet as originally non-league, the southern clubs are entirely non-league, and all the ex-FL clubs are northern.
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Post by jdl on Aug 2, 2020 17:35:05 GMT
Thinking why this might be, I wondered if there were simply more northern clubs in L2. But it's actually pretty balanced - 13 north & 11 south (2019/20).
I also wondered if it was the recent arrival in the NL of aggressively financed northern clubs, intent on getting into the EFL. But, again, this isn't really true - apart from Salford and Harrogate, the last club buying it's way into the EFL was FGR, 4 seasons ago.
Perhaps it just tends to be northern clubs who get promoted? But, not even that - over the last 10 years it's been pretty close, with 9 southern clubs promoted and 11 northern.
Given that each year's NL intake is always 2 northern and 2 southern, this remains a bit of a mystery.
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Post by daveu on Aug 2, 2020 17:46:08 GMT
Thinking why this might be, I wondered if there were simply more northern clubs in L2. But it's actually pretty balanced - 13 north & 11 south (2019/20). I also wondered if it was the recent arrival in the NL of aggressively financed northern clubs, intent on getting into the EFL. But, again, this isn't really true - apart from Salford and Harrogate, the last club buying it's way into the EFL was FGR, 4 seasons ago. Perhaps it just tends to be northern clubs who get promoted? But, not even that - over the last 10 years it's been pretty close, with 9 southern clubs promoted and 11 northern. Given that each year's NL intake is always 2 northern and 2 southern, this remains a bit of a mystery. The simple explanation is that the Football League was originally an exclusively northern competition so there are actually many more northern former League clubs than southern.
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