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Post by Bernie on Jun 4, 2022 17:15:51 GMT
If Solihull go up, there will be a definite north south divide in the National League. With extra fixtures to play it would make sense to schedule more local matches for the extra midweek games. This would help home attendances if the likes of Oldham and Scunthorpe visit on a Saturday rather than Tuesday night. But when did the National League board ever do the sensible option?
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Post by sword65 on Jun 4, 2022 17:19:20 GMT
Was the peak the Kent derbies? It was. 2/1 Tonbridge - 3,116 and 23/1 Ebsfleet - 3,001 (curiously, both 'mid-week' games!). Without those two games (or, rather, assuming they'd been average attendances), our seasonal average would have been about 2,250 (200 less than the actual average) - even including the two big gates at the end of the season. Actually, those big gates at the end distort the figures a lot - as can be seen from my graph (above). I haven't the time to redo the averages without them at the moment, but I suspect that we would actually have had a lower average than our last full NS season. That would probably be what we'd expect, but it does illustrate that, although we get big crowds by non-league standards, we are 'stuck' at around 2,200 (NS) or 2,400 (NL) - that seems to be the level of interest in football in Maidstone. And we really need bigger averages than that to be able to hold our own in the NL (we can't expect a promotion season every year!) I would think an average of around 2,500 would be OK for now (and, remember, that's an average - many gates would need to be higher), and, long-term, to justify further squad (and stadium) improvements, we'd need to improve to something like 3,000 average gates. And that's a hell of an ask. It will boil down to results ,win and they will come,lose and they will come but not for long especially as the cost has risen. If we get an average of 2600+ then we will have done well. |
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Post by jackster on Jun 4, 2022 19:48:29 GMT
Basically you seem to be saying that Stones 'natural level' is to be a solid National League side and even that is no gimmee.
Aspirations to the EFL being unrealistic.
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Post by sword65 on Jun 4, 2022 21:07:52 GMT
Basically you seem to be saying that Stones 'natural level' is to be a solid National League side and even that is no gimmee. Aspirations to the EFL being unrealistic. If that was aimed at me then you are correct. The step from NLS to NL is huge,the next step is even bigger. Just because we could raise the capacity 6 or 7000 does not mean we will automatically fill it. The fact is i have heard nothing about ripping up the 3G surface so you can forget about EFL anyway. |
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Post by Sennockian69 on Jun 4, 2022 23:32:23 GMT
If Solihull go up, there will be a definite north south divide in the National League. With extra fixtures to play it would make sense to schedule more local matches for the extra midweek games. This would help home attendances if the likes of Oldham and Scunthorpe visit on a Saturday rather than Tuesday night. But when did the National League board ever do the sensible option? Never. Morons are on board. |
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Post by jdl on Jun 5, 2022 0:37:23 GMT
Basically you seem to be saying that Stones 'natural level' is to be a solid National League side and even that is no gimmee. Aspirations to the EFL being unrealistic. Unfortunately, I think that is the reality. I don't want to be cast as a doomsayer, but that's what the facts indicate. Sword's 2,600 average doesn't sound that difficult, but it would actually be quite an achievement. Our best season before this one was our second in the NL, and we 'only' got an average of 2,412 then - and that was when we were still feeling pretty positive (we'd survived two seasons!) and had some good away crowds. I think we can do better than that, though. If Hak can put together another team like this season's, and with fans having more realistic expectations this time around, I think we can probably get an average gate of over 2,500 (although possibly only just). It also depends on what sort of away support turns up - we need some of the bigger sides to turn up in numbers, but most of the big sides are a fair distance away. I never thought I'd say this, but we might actually be grateful to see lots of Sarfend supporters. But, on the positive side - look how far we've come in just 10 years at the Gallagher (we couldn't have fitted last season's average into the stadium 10 years ago). And the NL is more like League Three than the top non-league division, so we're already doing as well as under Thompson (without the cost!). Also, 2,455 would put us 10th in last season's NL attendances - not to be sniffed at. As for EFL, there are L2 clubs with lower attendances (although only three), my guess is that we'd need 2,500 to 3,000 average gates to be able to stay up reasonably comfortably (probably nearer the higher figure). We've proven that we can get that number in (or more) on special occasions, so the supporters are out there. The question is can we pull them in every home game when it's not a championship season or a big Cup game? Only time will tell. |
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Post by jdl on Jun 5, 2022 0:54:04 GMT
 (Covid seasons ignored.) |
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Post by 61666 on Jun 5, 2022 8:19:13 GMT
In the days before Sky/BT, by and large, the big clubs were in the big cities. From time to time, form and management would see some clubs drop down (Man City, Forest, etc) and smaller ones gate crash for a while, such as Wimbledon. There were smaller towns with First Division teams like Burnley, Preston, Blackpool and so on, but they will really part of wider areas of large population.
TV and sponsorship money initially changed the balance and then along came the billionaire owners and consortia, so now life is no longer dependent of gate money, otherwise Bournemouth would not be a premiership team on gates under ten thousand.
Where we are, it is likewise no longer size matters. A town the size of Maidstone should be aspiring to League One status, as per Burton, Fleetwood etc, but if gates do not rise above 2500, then we can't get much further without extra investment.
Quite what makes Boreham Wood, FGR or Solihull more attractive than Maidstone as a 'charity' is anyone's guess, but may simply be down to the right rich men in a particular place - like Salford, for example.
Personally, I'm generally happy where we are. There are bigger clubs fairly locally, but I like what we have here (mostly). A rapid climb through the leagues is not likely to happen again, though you never know, so am hoping for a secure season and a couple of good cup runs this time round and maybe build from there.
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Post by daveu on Jun 5, 2022 9:06:05 GMT
In the days before Sky/BT, by and large, the big clubs were in the big cities. From time to time, form and management would see some clubs drop down (Man City, Forest, etc) and smaller ones gate crash for a while, such as Wimbledon. There were smaller towns with First Division teams like Burnley, Preston, Blackpool and so on, but they will really part of wider areas of large population. TV and sponsorship money initially changed the balance and then along came the billionaire owners and consortia, so now life is no longer dependent of gate money, otherwise Bournemouth would not be a premiership team on gates under ten thousand. Where we are, it is likewise no longer size matters. A town the size of Maidstone should be aspiring to League One status, as per Burton, Fleetwood etc, but if gates do not rise above 2500, then we can't get much further without extra investment. Quite what makes Boreham Wood, FGR or Solihull more attractive than Maidstone as a 'charity' is anyone's guess, but may simply be down to the right rich men in a particular place - like Salford, for example. Personally, I'm generally happy where we are. There are bigger clubs fairly locally, but I like what we have here (mostly). A rapid climb through the leagues is not likely to happen again, though you never know, so am hoping for a secure season and a couple of good cup runs this time round and maybe build from there. Kent doesn't seem to be a footballing county. With a catchment area that includes South East London and only one Football League club to compete with we should be attracting crowds of 3.5 to 4k in the NL but the support just doesn't seem to be there. Even Gillingham struggle to reach 5k and rarely top 8 even when they're doing well. Dartford and Ebbsfleet should be matching or even bettering us but the numbers just aren't there. |
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Post by nws on Jun 5, 2022 9:40:50 GMT
In the days before Sky/BT, by and large, the big clubs were in the big cities. From time to time, form and management would see some clubs drop down (Man City, Forest, etc) and smaller ones gate crash for a while, such as Wimbledon. There were smaller towns with First Division teams like Burnley, Preston, Blackpool and so on, but they will really part of wider areas of large population. TV and sponsorship money initially changed the balance and then along came the billionaire owners and consortia, so now life is no longer dependent of gate money, otherwise Bournemouth would not be a premiership team on gates under ten thousand. Where we are, it is likewise no longer size matters. A town the size of Maidstone should be aspiring to League One status, as per Burton, Fleetwood etc, but if gates do not rise above 2500, then we can't get much further without extra investment. Quite what makes Boreham Wood, FGR or Solihull more attractive than Maidstone as a 'charity' is anyone's guess, but may simply be down to the right rich men in a particular place - like Salford, for example. Personally, I'm generally happy where we are. There are bigger clubs fairly locally, but I like what we have here (mostly). A rapid climb through the leagues is not likely to happen again, though you never know, so am hoping for a secure season and a couple of good cup runs this time round and maybe build from there. Kent doesn't seem to be a footballing county. With a catchment area that includes South East London and only one Football League club to compete with we should be attracting crowds of 3.5 to 4k in the NL but the support just doesn't seem to be there. Even Gillingham struggle to reach 5k and rarely top 8 even when they're doing well. Dartford and Ebbsfleet should be matching or even bettering us but the numbers just aren't there. Yes. It's not like we have a large city within easy reach... |
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Post by Bernie on Jun 5, 2022 9:55:01 GMT
Never underestimate a large hinterland of support; just ask Burnley with an average attendance of 20,000 from a population of less than 90,000. It’s why Charlton subsidised coaches from all over Kent. It’s why a kid from Snodland will support Maidstone over Gillingham because it’s one less train journey and his dad is cheesed off with Scally. Build it, and put a decent football team in it, and they will come. Just need an old man who has made his fortune and wants to build a lasting memorial to his ego.
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Post by sword65 on Jun 5, 2022 13:01:46 GMT
Never underestimate a large hinterland of support; just ask Burnley with an average attendance of 20,000 from a population of less than 90,000. It’s why Charlton subsidised coaches from all over Kent. It’s why a kid from Snodland will support Maidstone over Gillingham because it’s one less train journey and his dad is cheesed off with Scally. Build it, and put a decent football team in it, and they will come. Just need an old man who has made his fortune and wants to build a lasting memorial to his ego. That discounts me and my bank balance of £0.14 then😁 |
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Post by jdl on Jun 5, 2022 15:23:58 GMT
It's history, I suppose. Outside of London, football was an almost exclusively midland/northern thing. Where it did prosper in the south, it was in large working class, urban areas. And, with few exceptions, that's still largely true. If there's no history of large-scale support for football in an area, it's very hard to create it.
On the other hand, how many paid-for events in Maidstone can generate a crowd of over 4,000?
We'll probably never have the potential of big crowds like Gills have, bit I think we've shown that we can attract good enough crowds to prosper in the NL, perhaps even the EFL. The trick is to play well enough to get those crowds in.
And maybe we need to up the facilities too, perhaps even increase the capacity a bit. 4,000+ once in a while is OK, but regular crowds of 3,000+ is a different matter. And first-timers aren't going to rush back if they've not been able to get a seat and/or had to queue for ages to go to the loo or get a beer or a pie.
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Post by yorkshirestone on Jun 10, 2022 10:11:39 GMT
Never underestimate a large hinterland of support; just ask Burnley with an average attendance of 20,000 from a population of less than 90,000. It’s why Charlton subsidised coaches from all over Kent. It’s why a kid from Snodland will support Maidstone over Gillingham because it’s one less train journey and his dad is cheesed off with Scally. Build it, and put a decent football team in it, and they will come. Just need an old man who has made his fortune and wants to build a lasting memorial to his ego. That discounts me and my bank balance of £0.14 then😁 Might get some interest from 01634land though... |
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Post by Bernie on Aug 7, 2022 8:22:43 GMT
Three attendances over 5000. Six above 3000.  |
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