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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2013 21:57:19 GMT
"Nothing to see here, ladies and gentlemen. Move along, please." That's really all that needs to be said about yesterday. I'm bound to upset someone with this. Probably quite a lot of people. I'm good at that. I've not been on here before, so, with the odd exception, I'm not sure of who's who... except for NWS, obviously. What Maidstone United Football Club needs to do here is learn from what happened yesterday. What Maidstone United Football Club does not need to do is implement any measures that are either panicky or draconian.
Firstly, let me admit that you can all accuse me with some justification of talking out of my backside, because I wasn't at the game. Why wasn't I at the game? Well, because I'd have taken very short odds indeed that there was going to be trouble. I held that opinion well before the lengthy and leisurely beer-tasting session that some Wealdstone fans enjoyed between 11am and 3pm yesterday was organised. That excursion would have had very little to do with it, though one or two who'd quaffed a bevvy or eight might have been keener on participating in the Town End shenanigans than they would've been when sober. I don't have any great objection to football hooliganism. Society has far more pressing problems. Given the FA's continual fostering of the type of one-eyed, tribal bigotry that leads to hooliganism - and the huge rise in the popularity of the game that fostering that mindset has produced - the FA itself must be viewed by means of a sideways glance when they get on their high horse and condemn it. It's just that my recce to the Gallagher Stadium last week - for on-field football reasons; not off-field reasons - indicated any altercations in a 2,000+ crowd would inevitably involve non-combatants. I'm not keen on that. It also suggested that the local constabulary might be in temptingly close proximity to any entertainment. GavSec sounds a reasonable and professional bloke. However, he doesn't sound too well-up on the intelligence front - that's "intelligence" as in "information"; not as in "brains". Very few even moderately experienced Ryman League fans or observers would have been surprised by yesterday's events. Most would have been surprised if something along those lines hadn't occurred. It didn't require hindsight. Many, if not all, of Maidstone's die-hard fans with both extensive football-watching experience and a streak of street nous would have foreseen it. The majority of Wealdstone away games of this type see "incidents" occurring. What is "this type"? A game involving a non-Ryman club, or a newly promoted club, which has a few scallies attached to it. A game where home fans, unfamiliar with Wealdstone's followers, assume that Wealdstone supporters are like others at this level. They are not. They will react in an unexpected manner to what's often regarded as standard banter or mild provocation. Lob a beer at a Leatherhead fan and, as has been said, you'll get away with it; lob a beer at a Wealdstone fan and you won't. Nor will those who indulge in standard simian poses and gestures in close proximity to a Wealdstone follower attract the mere tit-for-tat reciprocation one would expect from most other supporters. It won't be a recitation of the script of the Derek & Clive sketch. Whatever the reasons, that's the way the majority of forty-something Wealdstone fans are. Dealing with the situation as one would like it to be isn't a sound course of action. The harsher facts of life must be confronted in a realistic manner. I can't think of any Wealdstone supporters who would have turned-up yesterday looking to actually start a fight, either by lobbing beer or hitting someone in an unprovoked assault. Those inclined towards a spot of rumbustuous revelry would've been confident that they wouldn't need to. However, a lot of visiting fans would've been very keen on standing in amongst the Maidstone fans and hoping, with a high degree of confidence, to provoke the natives into action. Laugh if you like, condemn if you must. Football hooliganism is much like many other hobbies. It's practised by bank managers, milkmen, car salesmen and journalists who are just like you. There are far more socially destructive pastimes. Most Ryman Premier clubs have enough savvy regulars to ensure that Wealdstone fans are not subjected to standard banter or witty taunts at close range. Maidstone United certainly have a more than respectable number of such clued-up fans. Sufficient numbers to get the message across when 300 Maidstone supporters attend, but the club's recent explosion in popularity guaranteed that a huge number of locals who didn't understand what they were dealing with would naively fail the "Spot the Difference" exam until it was too late. There probably were genuine trouble-seekers amongst the home support yesterday - non-United hangers-on who fancied a ruck - but their activities would've made little difference.
If there was no police presence at the game yesterday, I'm genuinely shocked at their absence. I don't know who contacts whom, but any officer connected to the British Transport Police's Football Intelligence Unit would have told anyone from the Kent Constabulary in an instant that this was as high risk a league game as will be staged at this level this season, unless there are any last day deciders between pairs of clubs with a known following. As I say, I don't know whether it's the duty of the Kent Constabulary to contact British Transport Police for information on upcoming football fixtures, but it bloody well ought to be. If county police forces sit on their butts, waiting for an overstretched Football Intelligence Unit to make a courtesy call to them, then they ought to shift their arses into gear quickly and change that system.
I shouldn't need to tell any of your streetwise veterans which clubs are likely to turn up with a similar attitude to Wealdstone. There are none in this division. Unless Maidstone draw King's Lynn or Kettering in a cup - and the club will have to progress a fair way to meet either - it's extremely unlikely yesterday's scenes will be repeated. However, as has been pointed out, there are one or two outfits, such as Boreham Wood, who attract hangers-on for attractive games. The crowd at yesterday's game should have been segregated. There are a significant number of Maidstone fans - most of those with extensive experience - who would have held this opinion as soon as the fixture was announced. There should be people on the board who would have been aware of the high likelihood of altercations. That's not to agree with the Wealdstone fans who claim that the lack of segregation was the root cause of the trouble. In the grand scheme of things, it wasn't.
Maidstone followers will be welcomed at Grosvenor Vale. There'll be no trouble - unless some of those hypothetical non-United hangers-on turn up, which isn't likely. Great club, great ground. Don't beat yourselves up over yesterday. Make sure you do learn from it, but there won't be a repeat in any of this term's league games. You won't need to segregate on a weekly basis; nor will you need more stewards or security staff.
I have followed Maidstone from 6 years old and am now 40 and i had no expectation or feeling that there would be trouble yesterday at all perhaps im naive but that comes from experiencing very little trouble as a maidstone fan in that time. A time when we were conference then football league and then falling back to the county league. We had big gates all last year and very few issues. Thats why we are beating ourselves up a little as its such a shock to us. I for one was simply looking forward to watching my team in a new season back as high as we have been since the collapse of 1992
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Post by southwick1 on Aug 11, 2013 22:20:40 GMT
linkI found a few more but cant be arsed to post.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2013 22:33:13 GMT
linkI found a few more but cant be arsed to post. Says it all sadly a few like minded sorts appear to have decided that Maidstone can be there outlet. Was totally ignorant of Wealdstones apparent reputation prematch. The whole criticism of stewards etc and segregation from them sounds like footy league attitude rather than ryman or non league generally.
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Post by mackster on Aug 11, 2013 22:54:06 GMT
Although I agree with many of the sentiments echoed on this thread, I would just like to add a sense of perspective.
World War III did not take place.
I took my 70 year old mum to her first Maidstone game and she loved every minute of it. I sensibly avoided the Town End in the first half, but we took up our place in the 2nd half. Despite the aggro that did take place, there was the usual friendly atmosphere throughout the rest of the ground. The Gallagher is a safe place to watch your local team and this incident shouldn't put people of who are thinking of coming to support the Stones.
I would like to see Gavsec backed up by the club. If you have faith in your security people, then they should be given the powers that allow them to do the job. He asked certain individuals to leave and they refused. He must know who they are and the club should issue them with a warning, step out of line again and it should be a lengthy ban.
Its easy to behave yourself at a football match, especially when you are privileged to stand and drink a beer in an unsegregated environment. If we give this up, it will be a very sad day for our club.
COYS
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2013 10:27:46 GMT
at least with the old bill arriving it cant be swept under the carpet again, it forces the club to address things.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2013 14:05:22 GMT
I would like to see Gavsec backed up by the club. If you have faith in your security people, then they should be given the powers that allow them to do the job. He asked certain individuals to leave and they refused. He must know who they are and the club should issue them with a warning, step out of line again and it should be a lengthy ban. Er, I was one of those people told, not asked, to move out of the Springfield End and I refused to on the grounds that I have the right to watch the football from wherever I like. I was not involved in any of the trouble in the first half, I choose to watch all games from the Springfield End and very rarely venture into the Town End these days. I was stood with my wife, brother, mates and their kids and we were enjoying a cracking game of football. Why were we told to move? Safety reasons was the apparent excuse, but at the same time there were a large number of replica kit wearing Maidstone fans in the Springfield End and, for some reason they were not told to move! Make of that what you will! A lengthy ban for peacefully watching a game of football with my family? I guess that's one way of avoiding having to deal with the real idiots down at the Town End! Oh, and for what it's worth, at no point during the second half did I, or anyone I was stood with feel intimidated by the visiting supporters. It's about time we took a long, hard look at some of the people claiming to be Maidstone fans before we lump all the blame on Wealdstone. Rant over!
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andyh
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Post by andyh on Aug 12, 2013 14:36:48 GMT
Gavsec, I was not at the game on Saturday due to work commitments. I work quite a few weekends therefore cannot help out with Stewarding at all games but get along to as many as I can. I sometimes beg, change rosters and do anything I can to get a Saturday off but after the comments of some people on this board I am now considering if it is worth it. To give up the time we do to help the club, not only match day but also some evenings when we were training for our NVQ in football stewarding and then to be called Chocolate teapots amongst other things makes you wonder why you bother. The thing is though I don't see many other people offering to help, they would rather slag off those that do. Yes we don't get everything right, nobody does, but we are also not here as punch bags, we don't get paid enough for that. As for the deputy safety officer who stands at the top of the stand, he is there to oversee the whole ground and can move people around if he sees problems arising. I, like JT, may give this up and just go back to watching football, shame though because the less stewards we have means the more security or police that will be needed at vast cost to the club. I would also like to mention the Community guys that help out at matches, they are not stewards, they are there to clear up the rubbish left by most people that can't be bothered to use the bins provided and to get any balls which disappear out of the ground, they do a great job.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2013 14:56:54 GMT
For the record, I acted as steward at times for the club during the 1980's, 1990's and 2000's with some very high-profile games including the infamous Chelsea pre-season game and AFC Wimbledon FA Cup both of which saw plenty of trouble before, during and afterwards, so I know exactly what it's like to be on the receiving end. I've also served my time working in the turnstiles, producing and selling matchday progammes, cleaning up grounds, working in the club shop and been chairman of the supporters club on four different occasions, including the current season, so please don't accuse me of not offering to help the club!
The fact remains that the stewards in yellow jackets at the game on Saturday were totally overwhelmed by the situation and didn't have a clue how to either prevent, diffuse or indeed deal with the events.
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Post by pezza on Aug 12, 2013 16:24:29 GMT
As we all know we ain't got whiter than white fans (which will be sorted out within all good time I hope) but I did get the strong impression off afew wealdstone so call fans that they were looking for an excuse to start a ruck in which I was very much in the thick of (unfortunately). But segregation!!! ? R u shitting me? There simply ain't no need!! away fans r more than welcome to join me in the town end aslong as they can just keep it to banter and not threats and abuse unlike Saturday. Finally as for the stewarding I felt it was handled very well considering it kicked off in two places at v same time but in hindsight I do feel stewarding should have made its presence alot earlier (I even mentioned it to two stewards by the turnstiles as I went to get a couple pints!!! So they can't say no one raised it prior) But all in all glad no one hurt seriously (except the poor young lad who got knocked over at the back who I had to pull away from one of the morons as he was climbing through the bars towards us, but hey!! The lil man came n joined us again once it carmed down )
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payno
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Post by payno on Aug 12, 2013 16:31:59 GMT
Basically this while situation has been one complete balls up! We've been getting 2000crowds plus for over a year there was yes a few incidents last season leatherhead included! But when u get a half decent supported side which will happen alot more this season more teams with higher attendances than Ryman sth there gonna bring a hundred or more travelling fans if anything does go off its crazy to think 4 security blokes will be able to handle it! The warnings signs have been there recently! It's no surprise that we get big crowds we've had a year to be prepared and get the right kind if policing or security that 2000-2500 crowds should warrant so its a safer place for all to go and watch the game!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2013 16:49:12 GMT
As we all know we ain't got whiter than white fans (which will be sorted out within all good time I hope) get you mr ku klux clan lol.
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payno
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Post by payno on Aug 12, 2013 16:54:26 GMT
There's been too many posts to read them all now this may have been already answered or asked! But how comes the incidents after the game in the car park where allowed to happen after all the trouble that happened during the first half that couldn't be dealt with! Was extra back up or the police not called at the time of this going on? so more trouble could go on after? Did police only turn up after the game had finished? That is crazy if so!
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Post by roystyboy on Aug 12, 2013 16:56:22 GMT
brian we have some idiots but lets hope we are not all tarred with same brush in the town end i for one was trying to act as peace maker which several posts have noted
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Post by happychappy13 on Aug 12, 2013 17:02:10 GMT
I would really like a Wealdstone supporter to come on and tell me why segregation is required each time we have 150 away supporters. I am pretty sure we took 500+ to Dulwich last season in a game with lots riding on it. I have stood in several away crowds with 300+ down the years. Having said that, the throwing of beer over away fans in the town end seems to be an increasing complaint. Maybe we need to self-police and root this behaviour out if it is happening. WHile punching people is utterly disgusting, throwing beer over people who are watching a football match is well short of acceptable. I attended the game with my 5 year old grandson who had to be plucked from the terrace by a stranger as the blue army deceided to re inact a scene from football factory with genuine supporters wearing shirts and scarlfs they should be ashamed of them selves to attack newly promoted Maidstone.On the way out their opposition was probably equal to them I didn't see half of the mentioned Maidstone boys certainly not the 30 mentioned could it be that the Wealdstone supporter is chewing sour grapes .I don't condone any football violence but this fixture was david v goliath wake up sort your fans out
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andyh
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Post by andyh on Aug 12, 2013 17:32:29 GMT
Brian, Sorry the bit about not helping out was not aimed at you but some of the others that are quick to jump on here whenever there is a problem and have a go at people who do give up a lot of time for the club. As I said in my post I wasn't there so can't comment on the stewarding but to call all of us chocolate teapots is a bit of a downer, does make me wonder if I really want to carry on.
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