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Post by harryflatters on Aug 11, 2013 13:09:33 GMT
I just don't understand why anybody would waste any beverage. What's the point? Some people must have more money than sense.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2013 13:14:07 GMT
Surely if we bring in segregation then the tension will build during the match and the brave souls who can abuse from afar will end up causing scenes far worse than we saw post-match yesterday?
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Post by jt on Aug 11, 2013 13:41:40 GMT
This is one of the main reasons why I chose to give up stewarding when we came home. Yes I have experience of working at premiership grounds and have been in some pretty dire scrapes. I do not however have the required training g to be able to deal with the problems that happened yesterday. Unfortunately we have been a bit blinkered with regards to the stewarding side of things it has not been thought out properly.
I don't know if it's a money saving decision or not. If we have a game where we have opposing fans in the same end then stewards should be watching them and not the game. They should deal with incidents at the earliest available chance they get.
Another thing that can be done is installing cctv. This is used in the majority of grounds and works well. You can see quick time who has done what and deal with them. The downside is someone has to watch it during the game.
As I have said we use stewards that are fans and want to watch the game. I will include the safety officer and assistant safety officer in this. One of which spends quite a lot of the time watching the game from the top of the stand. Over the past twelve months we have had a few minor incidents that seem to have been ignored. You keep giving people chances they will push you further and further until no one can do anything.
I do have a lot more thought on it but I'm not one air certain things in public.
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Post by nws on Aug 11, 2013 13:55:54 GMT
A real shame that a great game at a great venue is not the main talking point today. Enjoyed my trip to your new ground, thought it was excellent and stewards aside it was a very professional set up. Clearly family friendly and a real buzz about the place. Excellent game too. (Weald)Stones have had an indifferent pre-season so not many of us expected a performance like that. We are very encouraged this morning about our chances this season, we look a much stronger side across the midfield than we did last season. And we still have Sean Cronin (double player of the year last season), Scott McGleish and Glen Little to come into the squad too. I know your pitch has it's critics but I felt is suited our game yesterday, particularly for Tom Pett (our number 11) who was in my opinion the best player on the pitch. As for the incidents off the pitch I think people need to step back and look at things objectively. Firstly, the banter between both sets of fans for the first 30 mins was actually good. Both sets of Stones fans mixing and chatting on the terraces, singing at each other etc. However, the catalyst for the trouble was beer thrown over Wealdstone supporters. Now people can take the moral high ground and claim that there shouldn't be a reaction but really? What in all honesty do people expect? Throw a beer over someone in a pub and what will happen? Throw beer over someone in the street and are they really going to walk away? That stand was packed full of both sets of fans and unfortunately things spilled over. Not condoning the fighting but as always there is a tipping point. Some Wealdstone fans spoke to your stewards before the incident and told them they needed to intervene otherwise things were going to get out of hand. But they ignored it. The vast majority of Wealdstone and Maidstone fans in attendance yesterday were not involved in the trouble and could quite legitimately make a serious complaint about your stewards failure to control the crowd. Standing next to some of your supporters they did not feel safe from either group and were looking for your stewards to take control. They failed. If the same incident occured at The Vale, Wealdstone would have to take responsibility for the consequences. At The Vale however we would not let two large groups of supporters congregate in the same stand and drink in the middle of a match. For that sort of crowd, I don't think there is any other stadium in the country that would allow it either. It's a recipe for disaster. As for after the game, a small group of Wealdstone fans attacked by up to 30 Maidstone fans outside the ground including a 13 year boy slapped round the head. Ridiculous. Of course people will say they deserved it merely for being associated with Wealdstone and given the events of the day. Tensions at football run high particularly when fuelled by alcohol. Human nature dictates that unfortunately incidents are likely to occur when large crowds are not controlled and for me that was the root cause of yesterday. It marred a fantastic day where we were hosted by what is clearly a great club. Don't let the incidents tar your views on Wealdstone. We're a passionate bunch who like alot of you have supported our club through some very dark times. Looking forward to a great game at The Vale in late December in front of another very big crowd and a great atmosphere. However this time, a crowd controlled properly. From a Maidstone viewpoint, I think anyone that is purporting to support Maidstone but actually throwing beer at away fans and, worse still, attacking people outside the ground should be identified, arrested (and dealt with accordingly) and given a lifetime injunction to stay 100m away from The Gallagher Stadium. I don't want them there and would happily have CCTV etc to identiofy them. See. It is quite easy to condemn (rather than just fail to condone) poor behaviour. I think my main problem with Wealdstone fans on the forums today is their complete unwillingness to say that people who cause problems should be banned end of. The best we have got from Bluearmy is that he does not condone poor behaviour from Wealdstone 'fans' but (there seems to be a but with all Wealdstone posts) we should expect violence if anyone does anything slightly upsetting. This is why I suggest that we give them what they they seem to want and segrgate them completely next time round. Personally, I think that is quite sad but it seems to be what is being requested. If Maidstone fans want to throw beer at people on the terrace then we need to ban beer from the taerrace. The misbehaving Maidstone and Wealdstone 'fans' are not welcome. The rest are.
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Post by wealdstone85 on Aug 11, 2013 14:08:16 GMT
I think my labelling them as imberciles is maybe a bit over the top.BUT of the 200 or so Wealdstone fans that were in the ground it seemed that about a quarter of them were there for reasons other than football. So maybe Thug or Hooligan would be a more appropriate label to use. Seriously? Then the same applies to Maidstone or did you have your amber blinkers on? Out of 1900 Maidstone fans in the ground, 50/100 intent on trouble including the 30 or so who attacked the small group after the game. At least Maidstone are slowly admitting they've got their own 'ooligan problem at last. But yes, very brave of those 30 Maidstone fans to attack 5 Wealdstone fans, of those 5 included a 13 year old boy who was assaulted. That guy who got his glasses removed during the first half...........you may want to study the CCTV evidence and look at his body language prior to this.
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Post by ontheup on Aug 11, 2013 14:28:17 GMT
Not many people on here are condoning what happened yesterday and we don't want the so called Maidstone fans at our games.
I would happily look at the CCTV coverage to see the guys body language but what has happened has happened. What we are trying to do is prevent this happening again. The thread is entitled "segregation" and neither me or any other true Maidstone fans want a repeat.
We want to avoid getting an unsavoury reputation and I can guarantee our owners will be getting together urgently to discuss the matter and put in place preventative measures.
But it is clear Wealdstone do have an unwanted reputation and some of us would like to know what is being done about that?
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Post by dannymeyes on Aug 11, 2013 14:48:36 GMT
Wealdstone's reputation goes back decades. They enjoy it. They will do nothing. They never have. Blame game is far easier. As for kids, bystanders and outnumbering they wrote the book on it.
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Post by gavsec on Aug 11, 2013 16:23:13 GMT
First of all I would like to point out that there are some right old keyboard warriors on here who would probably run away the first sign of trouble! Ill make it known who I am so for anyone that thinks the security done naff all can come tell me to my face!! For the past season I have been doing the security at the Gallagher stadium and I am not a Steward. I do the Security and was involved in what happened yesterday. I stand to the right of the town end stand and have always monitored the crowd . I am not there to fight or to be abusive to people but am there in case of rowdy fans to calm them down. Would like to point out exactly what happened yesterday as people on here are quick to judge when they don't know the full story. First of all , did anyone actually predict what was going to happen yesterday? No! if they did then please go and do the lottery numbers for me and focus on making me a million other than sitting behind your computer. The whole of last season there was hardly any trouble as myself and the team done our best to make sure the paying fans were comfortable watching the game. I personally dealt with a few twats last season but people didn't see that did they. Why is it we put a badge on and people think were there to fight. We monitor crowds, were helpful in dealing with complaints , were pleasant to both sets of fans to show were not the typical security that just want to fight. Having said that me and my team would never back down from any confrontation if it meant the fans felt comfortable. I stood to the right hand side of the town end stand and about 15 mins before kick of a group of wealdon fans walked past me saying " lets go plonk ourselves in the middle of the stones fans " they were quickly followed by another 30-40 strong supporters that looked like they had one two many. All shouting and chanting and were clearly up for more that to watch the game. Im not one to judge but in the 11 years of doing security for night clubs, events and football I have never seen a group of fans who wanted to give it like they did. Not saying our fans are perfect but they know anyone steps out of place were quick to tell our fans to hush it a little otherwise they will not be welcome back at the ground.. They have there little moment when they give us a little abusive remark then that's quite often the end of it. Going back prior to kick off, As soon as the Wealdon fans plonked them selves in the Maidstone stand I radioed through for the CCTV to focus on the stand for the first half. Can I point out start of the game there are only four security guys , two on the bar and two in the stand . Kick off starts and us security didn't move from the stand for 30mins , yes things were getting heated but it was banter. A few times myself and the other security guy had to go in to the stand to tell people to calm down, again both sets of fans think its acceptable to shout abuse towards us . I can deal with the wear words directed at me and my team but do people honestly think we could of stopped everything that went on with only four security guys against a strong 30-40 people fighting , pushing shoving. As soon as the first bit of trouble broke out I was the first one over the barrier and into the crowd holding the wealdon fans back as a few of them thought they stepped out of the football factory! upon doing this , I got two pints of beer thrown in my face and punches to my back, did I then run away and out of the ground , up towards the car park and hide?! no I carried on my job and trying to restrain the main culprits. Did people see us making way for the little old man out the back of the stand to get him out of the horrible situation? judging by some comments on here , No! people see what they want to see. End of first half and myself and a member of the directors board went and spoke to the main culprits of the fight and told him that if we were expecting trouble the second half then police would be called ( police were notified at half time anyway.. We then made a decision to segregate the fans for peoples safety and me and security went down the other end to try and segregate some of the fans so we didn't have a repeat of what had happened in the first half. What did we get when we went down the top end of the stand to try and move some of the Maidstone fans... ' no were staying here ! ' use your common sense , you don't want trouble then do what we are asked to do by the board of directors and listen. The second half kicked off and still abusive behaviour by both sets of fans but this time no punches being thrown. The reason why was us security in amongst the Wealdon fans segregating them. So the idiots on here saying we didn't want to know are full of crap.. Was it our thought we only had two security guys in the main stand trying to control a heavy 30-40 Wealdon fans, was it our thought police decided to turn up with five minutes to go when we actually logged the call 45 mins prior? No! Me and my security team will continue to provide a service for the club and have made many friends with Maidstone supporters over the past season who know we get stuck in when we need to but also know we don't tolerate people being abusive on the terraraces. Anyone thinks they can do a better job then send your CV to The Gallgher stadium and come and join me and see if you like what we put up with every match game. I for one would like to see both sets of fans enjoying them selves on match days and enjoying what they pay to watch.. THE FOOTBALL!
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Post by exiled on Aug 11, 2013 16:35:49 GMT
I followed Maidstone for 35 years and games with Wealdstone have always been littered with problems.They always had a hooligan element within their support and will never change.Just feel the club will have to wise up a little bit when when the likes of the them again along side some local derbies and big cup games as this naviety will only encourage dad not to bring kids to matches and the club will lose out in the long run.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2013 16:40:44 GMT
First of all I would like to point out that there are some right old keyboard warriors on here who would probably run away the first sign of trouble! Ill make it known who I am so for anyone that thinks the security done naff all can come tell me to my face!! For the past season I have been doing the security at the Gallagher stadium and I am not a Steward. I do the Security and was involved in what happened yesterday. I stand to the right of the town end stand and have always monitored the crowd . I am not there to fight or to be abusive to people but am there in case of rowdy fans to calm them down. Would like to point out exactly what happened yesterday as people on here are quick to judge when they don't know the full story. First of all , did anyone actually predict what was going to happen yesterday? No! if they did then please go and do the lottery numbers for me and focus on making me a million other than sitting behind your computer. The whole of last season there was hardly any trouble as myself and the team done our best to make sure the paying fans were comfortable watching the game. I personally dealt with a few twats last season but people didn't see that did they. Why is it we put a badge on and people think were there to fight. We monitor crowds, were helpful in dealing with complaints , were pleasant to both sets of fans to show were not the typical security that just want to fight. Having said that me and my team would never back down from any confrontation if it meant the fans felt comfortable. I stood to the right hand side of the town end stand and about 15 mins before kick of a group of wealdon fans walked past me saying " lets go plonk ourselves in the middle of the stones fans " they were quickly followed by another 30-40 strong supporters that looked like they had one two many. All shouting and chanting and were clearly up for more that to watch the game. Im not one to judge but in the 11 years of doing security for night clubs, events and football I have never seen a group of fans who wanted to give it like they did. Not saying our fans are perfect but they know anyone steps out of place were quick to tell our fans to hush it a little otherwise they will not be welcome back at the ground.. They have there little moment when they give us a little abusive remark then that's quite often the end of it. Going back prior to kick off, As soon as the Wealdon fans plonked them selves in the Maidstone stand I radioed through for the CCTV to focus on the stand for the first half. Can I point out start of the game there are only four security guys , two on the bar and two in the stand . Kick off starts and us security didn't move from the stand for 30mins , yes things were getting heated but it was banter. A few times myself and the other security guy had to go in to the stand to tell people to calm down, again both sets of fans think its acceptable to shout abuse towards us . I can deal with the wear words directed at me and my team but do people honestly think we could of stopped everything that went on with only four security guys against a strong 30-40 people fighting , pushing shoving. As soon as the first bit of trouble broke out I was the first one over the barrier and into the crowd holding the wealdon fans back as a few of them thought they stepped out of the football factory! upon doing this , I got two pints of beer thrown in my face and punches to my back, did I then run away and out of the ground , up towards the car park and hide?! no I carried on my job and trying to restrain the main culprits. Did people see us making way for the little old man out the back of the stand to get him out of the horrible situation? judging by some comments on here , No! people see what they want to see. End of first half and myself and a member of the directors board went and spoke to the main culprits of the fight and told him that if we were expecting trouble the second half then police would be called ( police were notified at half time anyway.. We then made a decision to segregate the fans for peoples safety and me and security went down the other end to try and segregate some of the fans so we didn't have a repeat of what had happened in the first half. What did we get when we went down the top end of the stand to try and move some of the Maidstone fans... ' no were staying here ! ' use your common sense , you don't want trouble then do what we are asked to do by the board of directors and listen. The second half kicked off and still abusive behaviour by both sets of fans but this time no punches being thrown. The reason why was us security in amongst the Wealdon fans segregating them. So the idiots on here saying we didn't want to know are full of crap.. Was it our thought we only had two security guys in the main stand trying to control a heavy 30-40 Wealdon fans, was it our thought police decided to turn up with five minutes to go when we actually logged the call 45 mins prior? No! Me and my security team will continue to provide a service for the club and have made many friends with Maidstone supporters over the past season who know we get stuck in when we need to but also know we don't tolerate people being abusive on the terraraces. Anyone thinks they can do a better job then send your CV to The Gallgher stadium and come and join me and see if you like what we put up with every match game. I for one would like to see both sets of fans enjoying them selves on match days and enjoying what they pay to watch.. THE FOOTBALL! A thankless task for sure and as stated not much you can do with the numbers of stewards compared to the number of numpties on this occasion. Credit where due for doing your best in extremely difficult circumstances that no one at the club could have expected. No doubt far greater numbers of stewards/ security are needed and the heavyhanded approach is much better left as a last resort as gentle persuasion rather than confrontation is always better received in the heat of the moment as stated above. Lets not look to hang people for doing a difficult job with limited resources to the best of their abilities. Did they get everything right of course not but who would in the face of so much aggresion The fact remains that behaviour is and always will be the responsibility of the individual.
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Post by nws on Aug 11, 2013 17:16:38 GMT
Seriously? Then the same applies to Maidstone or did you have your amber blinkers on? Out of 1900 Maidstone fans in the ground, 50/100 intent on trouble including the 30 or so who attacked the small group after the game. At least Maidstone are slowly admitting they've got their own 'ooligan problem at last. But yes, very brave of those 30 Maidstone fans to attack 5 Wealdstone fans, of those 5 included a 13 year old boy who was assaulted. That guy who got his glasses removed during the first half...........you may want to study the CCTV evidence and look at his body language prior to this. Sadly another chance missed. Several of our posts have spoken about wanting such people identified and booted out. Read further back on this forum to see the anger about behaviour in Calais. No blaming stewards, no blaming lack of segregation etc. Justs posts saying this is not wanted. Your line seems to be pointing out everyone else's problems while being completely in denial about something that has been going on for a long time. This denial is the reason it has been going on for ages. One of the people in security has now pointed out what some of your fans were up to. Are you still going to keep up your silly line of refusing to condemn it. My suggestion is that we take the advice of the Wealdstone fans and segregate them next time. I will slightly change what I said. They can stand up the Springfield end furthest away from the river. They can have an all ticket allocation and be allowed to enter and exit the ground by the gate over that side. We can put some makeshift toilets in for them. Nobody needs to mix with anybody then. If that is the sad way they wish to watch football then why deny them that pleasure. In the meantime we need to make sure we eradicate any misbehaviour from our own support. We don't want to get a reputation.
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Post by nws on Aug 11, 2013 17:18:08 GMT
Seriously? Then the same applies to Maidstone or did you have your amber blinkers on? Out of 1900 Maidstone fans in the ground, 50/100 intent on trouble including the 30 or so who attacked the small group after the game. At least Maidstone are slowly admitting they've got their own 'ooligan problem at last. But yes, very brave of those 30 Maidstone fans to attack 5 Wealdstone fans, of those 5 included a 13 year old boy who was assaulted. That guy who got his glasses removed during the first half...........you may want to study the CCTV evidence and look at his body language prior to this. Sadly another chance missed. Several of our posts have spoken about wanting such people identified and booted out. Read further back on this forum to see the anger about behaviour in Calais. No blaming stewards, no blaming lack of segregation etc. Justs posts saying this is not wanted. Your line seems to be pointing out everyone else's problems while being completely in denial about something that has been going on for a long time. This denial is the reason it has been going on for ages. One of the people in security has now pointed out what some of your fans were up to. Are you still going to keep up your silly line of refusing to condemn it. My suggestion is that we take the advice of the Wealdstone fans and segregate them next time. I will slightly change what I said. They can stand up the Springfield end furthest away from the river. They can have an all ticket allocation and be allowed to enter and exit the ground by the gate over that side. We can put some makeshift toilets in for them. Nobody needs to mix with anybody then. If that is the sad way they wish to watch football then why deny them that pleasure. In the meantime we need to make sure we eradicate any misbehaviour from our own support. We don't want to get a reputation.
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Post by wealdstone85 on Aug 11, 2013 17:21:14 GMT
First of all I would like to point out that there are some right old keyboard warriors on here who would probably run away the first sign of trouble! Ill make it known who I am so for anyone that thinks the security done naff all can come tell me to my face!! For the past season I have been doing the security at the Gallagher stadium and I am not a Steward. I do the Security and was involved in what happened yesterday. I stand to the right of the town end stand and have always monitored the crowd . I am not there to fight or to be abusive to people but am there in case of rowdy fans to calm them down. Would like to point out exactly what happened yesterday as people on here are quick to judge when they don't know the full story. First of all , did anyone actually predict what was going to happen yesterday? No! if they did then please go and do the lottery numbers for me and focus on making me a million other than sitting behind your computer. The whole of last season there was hardly any trouble as myself and the team done our best to make sure the paying fans were comfortable watching the game. I personally dealt with a few twats last season but people didn't see that did they. Why is it we put a badge on and people think were there to fight. We monitor crowds, were helpful in dealing with complaints , were pleasant to both sets of fans to show were not the typical security that just want to fight. Having said that me and my team would never back down from any confrontation if it meant the fans felt comfortable. I stood to the right hand side of the town end stand and about 15 mins before kick of a group of wealdon fans walked past me saying " lets go plonk ourselves in the middle of the stones fans " they were quickly followed by another 30-40 strong supporters that looked like they had one two many. All shouting and chanting and were clearly up for more that to watch the game. Im not one to judge but in the 11 years of doing security for night clubs, events and football I have never seen a group of fans who wanted to give it like they did. Not saying our fans are perfect but they know anyone steps out of place were quick to tell our fans to hush it a little otherwise they will not be welcome back at the ground.. They have there little moment when they give us a little abusive remark then that's quite often the end of it. Going back prior to kick off, As soon as the Wealdon fans plonked them selves in the Maidstone stand I radioed through for the CCTV to focus on the stand for the first half. Can I point out start of the game there are only four security guys , two on the bar and two in the stand . Kick off starts and us security didn't move from the stand for 30mins , yes things were getting heated but it was banter. A few times myself and the other security guy had to go in to the stand to tell people to calm down, again both sets of fans think its acceptable to shout abuse towards us . I can deal with the wear words directed at me and my team but do people honestly think we could of stopped everything that went on with only four security guys against a strong 30-40 people fighting , pushing shoving. As soon as the first bit of trouble broke out I was the first one over the barrier and into the crowd holding the wealdon fans back as a few of them thought they stepped out of the football factory! upon doing this , I got two pints of beer thrown in my face and punches to my back, did I then run away and out of the ground , up towards the car park and hide?! no I carried on my job and trying to restrain the main culprits. Did people see us making way for the little old man out the back of the stand to get him out of the horrible situation? judging by some comments on here , No! people see what they want to see. End of first half and myself and a member of the directors board went and spoke to the main culprits of the fight and told him that if we were expecting trouble the second half then police would be called ( police were notified at half time anyway.. We then made a decision to segregate the fans for peoples safety and me and security went down the other end to try and segregate some of the fans so we didn't have a repeat of what had happened in the first half. What did we get when we went down the top end of the stand to try and move some of the Maidstone fans... ' no were staying here ! ' use your common sense , you don't want trouble then do what we are asked to do by the board of directors and listen. The second half kicked off and still abusive behaviour by both sets of fans but this time no punches being thrown. The reason why was us security in amongst the Wealdon fans segregating them. So the idiots on here saying we didn't want to know are full of crap.. Was it our thought we only had two security guys in the main stand trying to control a heavy 30-40 Wealdon fans, was it our thought police decided to turn up with five minutes to go when we actually logged the call 45 mins prior? No! Me and my security team will continue to provide a service for the club and have made many friends with Maidstone supporters over the past season who know we get stuck in when we need to but also know we don't tolerate people being abusive on the terraraces. Anyone thinks they can do a better job then send your CV to The Gallgher stadium and come and join me and see if you like what we put up with every match game. I for one would like to see both sets of fans enjoying them selves on match days and enjoying what they pay to watch.. THE FOOTBALL! You are absolutely spot on with your first statement about keyboard warriors. I can imagine quite a few of them were in attendance yesterday offering threats of violence and then running away when it actually happens. I'm not going to argue with the general nature of your email, but could please explain why you let 10 or so Maidstone 'fans' who were intent on causing trouble stand to the left of the Wealdstone fans in the second half? It would appear that some of our more robust fans made their peace with them and there was no further problems with these individuals. Could you also explain why you let Wealdstone fans out of the game at the end, knowing that some had to walk to their coach of which meant they would inevitably walk past a large group of Maidstone fans who then went on to attack a 13 year old? Do not deny this happened as a statement was taken by the Police for this incident. I fully appreciate you were maybe understaffed for this event any maybe did not have enough intelligence on fixtures such as this. By the way, if you think Wealdstone are bad, you try and steward Borehamwood's FA Cup hangers on!!
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Post by gavsec on Aug 11, 2013 17:32:31 GMT
The directors of the football club asked me to remove Maidstone fans in the second half which myself and someone went down to do. I explained after the awful first half that we didn't want a repeat in the second half so asked them three time to move ! There response was why should we move its our club we pay to watch so we stand where we want to .. Granted.. they do but did not allow them to stand there. They said were not moving unless the police were called which was already done at half time. What did you expect me to do, physically grab them by the scruff of the neck and tell them to move. It was their choice to stand there. they didn't want to listen so I had no choice but to stand in the stand and listen to both sets of fans for the remainder 45 mins.. At the end of the game I cant be in two places at once and I for one got told about the fighting afterwards . By that time, the police should of been there as they have the power to arrest.. I appreciate your comment but as stated, it was beyond my control by that point , fans wanted to fight each other regardless!
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Post by robkentblue on Aug 11, 2013 17:37:07 GMT
Thanks for your teams efforts Gavsec.
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