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Post by stoner1 on Aug 11, 2013 17:37:49 GMT
From my vantage point (about 3 yards from where it kicked off - didn't get involved), as blue army said first 30 minutes nothing really happened, a little bit spiky (one of our fans and presumably one of theirs were giving it the old you come here, no you come over here, but this was quickly self policed). Then Brown committed a foul by the halfway line, one of our supporters called out 'it was shoulder to shoulder' (quite possibly ironically). One of their supporters took great offence to this and appeared to charge at our support, from my point of view that started it. The first beer I saw thrown was well after it had all began and at this point being hit by a pint was the least of your worries; like I say this is just what I saw and I could have missed stuff being thrown before, certainly nothing came across my line of sight. This is exactly what happened no ifs or buts. Something that should be said is that a few of the young maidstone fans took the banter way too far and were plain insulting. Easy to do, when there are 20 fellas between you and the away fans, but they were shut up quickly as it was clear the away fans had lost it. Well said Gavsec, I cant comment about the actions after the game but from what I saw before half time you guys were hung out to dry, and did your best to gain control in the face of some seriously threatening behaviour. I did also see you removing the older gent. Maybe in the future the police will be a bit quicker to support you guys in these situations and with some more effective planning these things will be dealt with calmly and safely.
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Post by stainese on Aug 11, 2013 18:12:18 GMT
I hope the lessons of Saturday are learnt well. I'm afraid for the club they are the need for effective ,trained stewards And sadly the consideration given to the need of a police presence for the occasional 'A risk game'. For the supporters a need for self policing or the spectre of a reduced capacity and the loss of the freedom to stand where we want and move around the stadium at will.
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Post by heartofstone on Aug 11, 2013 19:21:34 GMT
Pity my first ever post concerns Saturdays problems, rather be speaking about football matters to be honest.
Gavsec is my son so let me disabuse several who have posted on here, he would never back down from anyone or anything. He and his security team, along with several of the more experienced stewards, have quietly and efficiently gone about their duties this past season ensuring the safety and comfort of the spectators, with a modern, polite, low-key approach - if you want to see old school bouncers go visit Tonbridge.
Very easy to criticise their actions when under extreme provocation and in the midst of very intimidating circumstances. I would suggest that those home supporters who offered abuse and hindered the security team as several did on Saturday, take a hard look at themselves and hopefully be suitably embarrassed.
We would all prefer not to witness a repeat of Saturdays problems, hopefully lessons will have been learned by everyone. Hindsight is a wonderful thing though!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2013 19:51:49 GMT
Very sorry to read of Saturday's events.I'm even more sorry to have to consider (when also taking into account events at the Epopee) that it might not be a good move to wear a Calais shirt in Maidstone.I'm really looking forward to coming - but I'd like to leave in one piece!!! This is a very sad post, we dont want people feeling threatened and unable to wear their colours
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Post by robkentblue on Aug 11, 2013 20:06:40 GMT
I concur with Ant. Mon ami 'Calais Angleterre' you epitomise all that is good and decent with football and are welcome as is everybody with the same attitude. What we don't want is people,and I use the term loosely, who in the midst of trouble being told 'there are children here' responded with the warm and embracing. "we don't give a ****"
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Post by roystyboy on Aug 11, 2013 20:18:46 GMT
Gavsec you and your team do a good job you cannot take the blame for this if anyone at the club wish to speak with me i will talk to them if it helps
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Post by nws on Aug 11, 2013 20:25:04 GMT
First of all I would like to point out that there are some right old keyboard warriors on here who would probably run away the first sign of trouble! Ill make it known who I am so for anyone that thinks the security done naff all can come tell me to my face!! For the past season I have been doing the security at the Gallagher stadium and I am not a Steward. I do the Security and was involved in what happened yesterday. I stand to the right of the town end stand and have always monitored the crowd . I am not there to fight or to be abusive to people but am there in case of rowdy fans to calm them down. Would like to point out exactly what happened yesterday as people on here are quick to judge when they don't know the full story. First of all , did anyone actually predict what was going to happen yesterday? No! if they did then please go and do the lottery numbers for me and focus on making me a million other than sitting behind your computer. The whole of last season there was hardly any trouble as myself and the team done our best to make sure the pyaying fans were comfortable watching the game. I personally dealt with a few twats last season but people didn't see that did they. Why is it we put a badge on and people think were there to fight. We monitor crowds, were helpful in dealing with complaints , were pleasant to both sets of fans to show were not the typical security that just want to fight. Having said that me and my team would never back down from any confrontation if it meant the fans felt comfortable. I stood to the right hand side of the town end stand and about 15 mins before kick of a group of wealdon fans walked past me saying " lets go plonk ourselves in the middle of the stones fans " they were quickly followed by another 30-40 strong supporters that looked like they had one two many. All shouting and chanting and were clearly up for more that to watch the game. Im not one to judge but in the 11 years of doing security for night clubs, events and football I have never seen a group of fans who wanted to give it like they did. Not saying our fans are perfect but they know anyone steps out of place were quick to tell our fans to hush it a little otherwise they will not be welcome back at the ground.. They have there little moment when they give us a little abusive remark then that's quite often the end of it. Going back prior to kick off, As soon as the Wealdon fans plonked them selves in the Maidstone stand I radioed through for the CCTV to focus on the stand for the first half. Can I point out start of the game there are only four security guys , two on the bar and two in the stand . Kick off starts and us security didn't move from the stand for 30mins , yes things were getting heated but it was banter. A few times myself and the other security guy had to go in to the stand to tell people to calm down, again both sets of fans think its acceptable to shout abuse towards us . I can deal with the wear words directed at me and my team but do people honestly think we could of stopped everything that went on with only four security guys against a strong 30-40 people fighting , pushing shoving. As soon as the first bit of trouble broke out I was the first one over the barrier and into the crowd holding the wealdon fans back as a few of them thought they stepped out of the football factory! upon doing this , I got two pints of beer thrown in my face and punches to my back, did I then run away and out of the ground , up towards the car park and hide?! no I carried on my job and trying to restrain the main culprits. Did people see us making way for the little old man out the back of the stand to get him out of the horrible situation? judging by some comments on here , No! people see what they want to see. End of first half and myself and a member of the directors board went and spoke to the main culprits of the fight and told him that if we were expecting trouble the second half then police would be called ( police were notified at half time anyway.. We then made a decision to segregate the fans for peoples safety and me and security went down the other end to try and segregate some of the fans so we didn't have a repeat of what had happened in the first half. What did we get when we went down the top end of the stand to try and move some of the Maidstone fans... ' no were staying here ! ' use your common sense , you don't want trouble then do what we are asked to do by the board of directors and listen. The second half kicked off and still abusive behaviour by both sets of fans but this time no punches being thrown. The reason why was us security in amongst the Wealdon fans segregating them. So the idiots on here saying we didn't want to know are full of crap.. Was it our thought we only had two security guys in the main stand trying to control a heavy 30-40 Wealdon fans, was it our thought police decided to turn up with five minutes to go when we actually logged the call 45 mins prior? No! Me and my security team will continue to provide a service for the club and have made many friends with Maidstone supporters over the past season who know we get stuck in when we need to but also know we don't tolerate people being abusive on the terraraces. Anyone thinks they can do a better job then send your CV to The Gallgher stadium and come and join me and see if you like what we put up with every match game. I for one would like to see both sets of fans enjoying them selves on match days and enjoying what they pay to watch.. THE FOOTBALL! You are absolutely spot on with your first statement about keyboard warriors. I can imagine quite a few of them were in attendance yesterday offering threats of violence and then running away when it actually happens. I'm not going to argue with the general nature of your email, but could please explain why you let 10 or so Maidstone 'fans' who were intent on causing trouble stand to the left of the Wealdstone fans in the second half? It would appear that some of our more robust fans made their peace with them and there was no further problems with these individuals. Could you also explain why you let Wealdstone fans out of the game at the end, knowing that some had to walk to their coach of which meant they would inevitably walk past a large group of Maidstone fans who then went on to attack a 13 year old? Do not deny this happened as a statement was taken by the Police for this incident. I fully appreciate you were maybe understaffed for this event any maybe did not have enough intelligence on fixtures such as this. By the way, if you think Wealdstone are bad, you try and steward Borehamwood's FA Cup hangers on!! You are hilarious. This guy has stated that a group of your supporters came along with a real intent to cause probles. You completely ignore that and then go on to complain about ten supporters who refused to move. Please accept my apologies for the actions of anyone attacking people in car parks because that is utterly disgraceful behaviour. I hope such people are rooted out and banned from ourground. I shall wait no further for any condemnation of the poor behaviour of people from Wealdstone. I hope the directors put segregation plan in place should you be the visitors with your coaches directed to park outside the gate so you can go straight in, watch the match and leave again. As a goodwill gesture I hope we give each fan a bottle of water on the way in so they are not thirsty. Au revoir from the frenchies
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Post by gavsec on Aug 11, 2013 20:25:25 GMT
@ roystyboy.. thanks for your support and its nice to have support rather than numpties bad mouthing us. make it known to me at the next game who you are and ill have a chat with you. see you at the next home game..
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Post by nws on Aug 11, 2013 20:28:32 GMT
Gavsec you and your team do a good job you cannot take the blame for this if anyone at the club wish to speak with me i will talk to them if it helps If anyone knows Maidstonians who were c,ausing a problem. Please inform the club
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Post by toonarmy on Aug 11, 2013 20:31:59 GMT
Gavsec you and your team do a good job you cannot take the blame for this if anyone at the club wish to speak with me i will talk to them if it helps If anyone knows Maidstonians who were c,ausing a problem. Please inform the club I would have to agree if anybody knows those people that were involved then there names should be forwarded to the club, this shouldn't be hard as the majority of fans in the town end know each other.
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Post by hammerjay on Aug 11, 2013 20:55:11 GMT
Gavsec you and your team do a good job you cannot take the blame for this if anyone at the club wish to speak with me i will talk to them if it helps Yes they do a fantastic job thats twice tonight I've agreed with you
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Post by alanainsworth on Aug 11, 2013 21:26:00 GMT
"Nothing to see here, ladies and gentlemen. Move along, please." That's really all that needs to be said about yesterday.
I'm bound to upset someone with this. Probably quite a lot of people. I'm good at that. I've not been on here before, so, with the odd exception, I'm not sure of who's who... except for NWS, obviously.
What Maidstone United Football Club needs to do here is learn from what happened yesterday. What Maidstone United Football Club does not need to do is implement any measures that are either panicky or draconian.
Firstly, let me admit that you can all accuse me with some justification of talking out of my backside, because I wasn't at the game. Why wasn't I at the game? Well, because I'd have taken very short odds indeed that there was going to be trouble. I held that opinion well before the lengthy and leisurely beer-tasting session that some Wealdstone fans enjoyed between 11am and 3pm yesterday was organised. That excursion would have had very little to do with it, though one or two who'd quaffed a bevvy or eight might have been keener on participating in the Town End shenanigans than they would've been when sober. I don't have any great objection to football hooliganism. Society has far more pressing problems. Given the FA's continual fostering of the type of one-eyed, tribal bigotry that leads to hooliganism - and the huge rise in the popularity of the game that fostering that mindset has produced - the FA itself must be viewed by means of a sideways glance when they get on their high horse and condemn it. It's just that my recce to the Gallagher Stadium last week - for on-field football reasons; not off-field reasons - indicated any altercations in a 2,000+ crowd would inevitably involve non-combatants. I'm not keen on that. It also suggested that the local constabulary might be in temptingly close proximity to any entertainment. GavSec sounds a reasonable and professional bloke. However, he doesn't sound too well-up on the intelligence front - that's "intelligence" as in "information"; not as in "brains". Very few even moderately experienced Ryman League fans or observers would have been surprised by yesterday's events. Most would have been surprised if something along those lines hadn't occurred. It didn't require hindsight. Many, if not all, of Maidstone's die-hard fans with both extensive football-watching experience and a streak of street nous would have foreseen it. The majority of Wealdstone away games of this type see "incidents" occurring. What is "this type"? A game involving a non-Ryman club, or a newly promoted club, which has a few scallies attached to it. A game where home fans, unfamiliar with Wealdstone's followers, assume that Wealdstone supporters are like others at this level. They are not. They will react in an unexpected manner to what's often regarded as standard banter or mild provocation. Lob a beer at a Leatherhead fan and, as has been said, you'll get away with it; lob a beer at a Wealdstone fan and you won't. Nor will those who indulge in standard simian poses and gestures in close proximity to a Wealdstone follower attract the mere tit-for-tat reciprocation one would expect from most other supporters. It won't be a recitation of the script of the Derek & Clive sketch. Whatever the reasons, that's the way the majority of forty-something Wealdstone fans are. Dealing with the situation as one would like it to be isn't a sound course of action. The harsher facts of life must be confronted in a realistic manner. I can't think of any Wealdstone supporters who would have turned-up yesterday looking to actually start a fight, either by lobbing beer or hitting someone in an unprovoked assault. Those inclined towards a spot of rumbustuous revelry would've been confident that they wouldn't need to. However, a lot of visiting fans would've been very keen on standing in amongst the Maidstone fans and hoping, with a high degree of confidence, to provoke the natives into action. Laugh if you like, condemn if you must. Football hooliganism is much like many other hobbies. It's practised by bank managers, milkmen, car salesmen and journalists who are just like you. There are far more socially destructive pastimes. Most Ryman Premier clubs have enough savvy regulars to ensure that Wealdstone fans are not subjected to standard banter or witty taunts at close range. Maidstone United certainly have a more than respectable number of such clued-up fans. Sufficient numbers to get the message across when 300 Maidstone supporters attend, but the club's recent explosion in popularity guaranteed that a huge number of locals who didn't understand what they were dealing with would naively fail the "Spot the Difference" exam until it was too late. There probably were genuine trouble-seekers amongst the home support yesterday - non-United hangers-on who fancied a ruck - but their activities would've made little difference.
If there was no police presence at the game yesterday, I'm genuinely shocked at their absence. I don't know who contacts whom, but any officer connected to the British Transport Police's Football Intelligence Unit would have told anyone from the Kent Constabulary in an instant that this was as high risk a league game as will be staged at this level this season, unless there are any last day deciders between pairs of clubs with a known following. As I say, I don't know whether it's the duty of the Kent Constabulary to contact British Transport Police for information on upcoming football fixtures, but it bloody well ought to be. If county police forces sit on their butts, waiting for an overstretched Football Intelligence Unit to make a courtesy call to them, then they ought to shift their arses into gear quickly and change that system.
I shouldn't need to tell any of your streetwise veterans which clubs are likely to turn up with a similar attitude to Wealdstone. There are none in this division. Unless Maidstone draw King's Lynn or Kettering in a cup - and the club will have to progress a fair way to meet either - it's extremely unlikely yesterday's scenes will be repeated. However, as has been pointed out, there are one or two outfits, such as Boreham Wood, who attract hangers-on for attractive games. The crowd at yesterday's game should have been segregated. There are a significant number of Maidstone fans - most of those with extensive experience - who would have held this opinion as soon as the fixture was announced. There should be people on the board who would have been aware of the high likelihood of altercations. That's not to agree with the Wealdstone fans who claim that the lack of segregation was the root cause of the trouble. In the grand scheme of things, it wasn't.
Maidstone followers will be welcomed at Grosvenor Vale. There'll be no trouble - unless some of those hypothetical non-United hangers-on turn up, which isn't likely. Great club, great ground. Don't beat yourselves up over yesterday. Make sure you do learn from it, but there won't be a repeat in any of this term's league games. You won't need to segregate on a weekly basis; nor will you need more stewards or security staff.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2013 21:29:45 GMT
People skills help. "Shut it fella", "muppet", and "numpties" all because some dared to criticise the handling of the situation?
Uncalled for
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Post by nws on Aug 11, 2013 21:47:51 GMT
"Nothing to see here, ladies and gentlemen. Move along, please." That's really all that needs to be said about yesterday. I'm bound to upset someone with this. Probably quite a lot of people. I'm good at that. I've not been on here before, so, with the odd exception, I'm not sure of who's who... except for NWS, obviously. What Maidstone United Football Club needs to do here is learn from what happened yesterday. What Maidstone United Football Club does not need to do is implement any measures that are either panicky or draconian.
Firstly, let me admit that you can all accuse me with some justification of talking out of my backside, because I wasn't at the game. Why wasn't I at the game? Well, because I'd have taken very short odds indeed that there was going to be trouble. I held that opinion well before the lengthy and leisurely beer-tasting session that some Wealdstone fans enjoyed between 11am and 3pm yesterday was organised. That excursion would have had very little to do with it, though one or two who'd quaffed a bevvy or eight might have been keener on participating in the Town End shenanigans than they would've been when sober. I don't have any great objection to football hooliganism. Society has far more pressing problems. Given the FA's continual fostering of the type of one-eyed, tribal bigotry that leads to hooliganism - and the huge rise in the popularity of the game that fostering that mindset has produced - the FA itself must be viewed by means of a sideways glance when they get on their high horse and condemn it. It's just that my recce to the Gallagher Stadium last week - for on-field football reasons; not off-field reasons - indicated any altercations in a 2,000+ crowd would inevitably involve non-combatants. I'm not keen on that. It also suggested that the local constabulary might be in temptingly close proximity to any entertainment. GavSec sounds a reasonable and professional bloke. However, he doesn't sound too well-up on the intelligence front - that's "intelligence" as in "information"; not as in "brains". Very few even moderately experienced Ryman League fans or observers would have been surprised by yesterday's events. Most would have been surprised if something along those lines hadn't occurred. It didn't require hindsight. Many, if not all, of Maidstone's die-hard fans with both extensive football-watching experience and a streak of street nous would have foreseen it. The majority of Wealdstone away games of this type see "incidents" occurring. What is "this type"? A game involving a non-Ryman club, or a newly promoted club, which has a few scallies attached to it. A game where home fans, unfamiliar with Wealdstone's followers, assume that Wealdstone supporters are like others at this level. They are not. They will react in an unexpected manner to what's often regarded as standard banter or mild provocation. Lob a beer at a Leatherhead fan and, as has been said, you'll get away with it; lob a beer at a Wealdstone fan and you won't. Nor will those who indulge in standard simian poses and gestures in close proximity to a Wealdstone follower attract the mere tit-for-tat reciprocation one would expect from most other supporters. It won't be a recitation of the script of the Derek & Clive sketch. Whatever the reasons, that's the way the majority of forty-something Wealdstone fans are. Dealing with the situation as one would like it to be isn't a sound course of action. The harsher facts of life must be confronted in a realistic manner. I can't think of any Wealdstone supporters who would have turned-up yesterday looking to actually start a fight, either by lobbing beer or hitting someone in an unprovoked assault. Those inclined towards a spot of rumbustuous revelry would've been confident that they wouldn't need to. However, a lot of visiting fans would've been very keen on standing in amongst the Maidstone fans and hoping, with a high degree of confidence, to provoke the natives into action. Laugh if you like, condemn if you must. Football hooliganism is much like many other hobbies. It's practised by bank managers, milkmen, car salesmen and journalists who are just like you. There are far more socially destructive pastimes. Most Ryman Premier clubs have enough savvy regulars to ensure that Wealdstone fans are not subjected to standard banter or witty taunts at close range. Maidstone United certainly have a more than respectable number of such clued-up fans. Sufficient numbers to get the message across when 300 Maidstone supporters attend, but the club's recent explosion in popularity guaranteed that a huge number of locals who didn't understand what they were dealing with would naively fail the "Spot the Difference" exam until it was too late. There probably were genuine trouble-seekers amongst the home support yesterday - non-United hangers-on who fancied a ruck - but their activities would've made little difference.
If there was no police presence at the game yesterday, I'm genuinely shocked at their absence. I don't know who contacts whom, but any officer connected to the British Transport Police's Football Intelligence Unit would have told anyone from the Kent Constabulary in an instant that this was as high risk a league game as will be staged at this level this season, unless there are any last day deciders between pairs of clubs with a known following. As I say, I don't know whether it's the duty of the Kent Constabulary to contact British Transport Police for information on upcoming football fixtures, but it bloody well ought to be. If county police forces sit on their butts, waiting for an overstretched Football Intelligence Unit to make a courtesy call to them, then they ought to shift their arses into gear quickly and change that system.
I shouldn't need to tell any of your streetwise veterans which clubs are likely to turn up with a similar attitude to Wealdstone. There are none in this division. Unless Maidstone draw King's Lynn or Kettering in a cup - and the club will have to progress a fair way to meet either - it's extremely unlikely yesterday's scenes will be repeated. However, as has been pointed out, there are one or two outfits, such as Boreham Wood, who attract hangers-on for attractive games. The crowd at yesterday's game should have been segregated. There are a significant number of Maidstone fans - most of those with extensive experience - who would have held this opinion as soon as the fixture was announced. There should be people on the board who would have been aware of the high likelihood of altercations. That's not to agree with the Wealdstone fans who claim that the lack of segregation was the root cause of the trouble. In the grand scheme of things, it wasn't.
Maidstone followers will be welcomed at Grosvenor Vale. There'll be no trouble - unless some of those hypothetical non-United hangers-on turn up, which isn't likely. Great club, great ground. Don't beat yourselves up over yesterday. Make sure you do learn from it, but there won't be a repeat in any of this term's league games. You won't need to segregate on a weekly basis; nor will you need more stewards or security staff.
How lovely to see a top forum poster such as alanainworth on here. My fellow Maidstonians you should hope he comes back because he is one of the most entertaining posters you will ever read
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Post by ontheup on Aug 11, 2013 21:49:54 GMT
Nice one Alan, a very fair and honest account of what took place and what was always likely to take place. No finger pointing, no accusations, just an acceptance that these things happen and actually there are more important things to focus on, and that isn't meant in a "sweeping under the carpet" context
This was a high risk game and it should have been treated that way from he outset, and perhaps this is close to being the biggest failure of all. Like it or not Wealdstone (and other clubs) have a reputation and this should have struck warning bells as soon as the fixtures were announced and the necessary plans put in place. And I mean that in terms of protection of all genuine fans ( from either side)
I don't think the club need to panic with knee jerk reactions and over the top measures, I do think they need to have a little more "intelligence" at hand. Perhaps this is where the fan club, police and club officials need to work together.
Interesting you mention Kettering as we did play them in the cup about 20 years ago and sure enough a number of their fans did come into our end and start throwing punches at anybody within range. Proof that reputations are difficult to shift and I for one don't want my club given a bad one based on yesterday's events.
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