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Post by 61666 on Aug 13, 2019 8:04:59 GMT
Good news on post Brexit today (sic). The US of A says we are at the top of their list for trade deals. Great, until you remember the president is a businessman who makes his money by trampling opponents under foot. Hence any deal with the US will be more about what they can screw us for than benefits the other way round. Maybe we should try Argentina, which is rapidly going tits up again. Frey Bentos corned beef anyone?
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Post by 61666 on Aug 18, 2019 8:02:34 GMT
With the leak to the Sunday Times about Operation Yellowhammer in the news, you have to wonder about ALL our politicians. The likelihood of certain foodstuffs and medicines being in short supply following a no deal Brexit is no surprise, though lorries being delayed up to two days is a bit of an eye opener. Perhaps most worrying is what the ST refers to as a culture of not listening to experts when their views don't meet your own political views. No doubt Brexiteers will say any problems will simply be short term pain for long term gain. Fine, except the pain is not going to be born by them, of course - their wealth will always cushion the impact. However, all sides of the political spectrum need to have a good look in the mirror, because remainers are perhaps just as guilty of political obfuscation, in order to delay the process, meaning we could well end up in a worst case scenario. Part of me almost wants it to go tits up, so the hard line Brexiteers face total humiliation, but of course ultimately, they will still be fine, regardless. What is really needed is some common sense, to find workable compromises, but that ain't going to happen any time soon methinks. At the end of the day, anyone who voted Remain knew what they were getting. Voting Leave meant, and still means, many different things to many different people and there lies the problem. Cameron bollixed it up by not asking the right questions in the first place, which is why we are now in such a mess. Last time I heard, he was still pretty damn rich though, so why would he care?
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Post by jdl on Aug 18, 2019 10:14:49 GMT
With the leak to the Sunday Times about Operation Yellowhammer in the news, you have to wonder about ALL our politicians. The likelihood of certain foodstuffs and medicines being in short supply following a no deal Brexit is no surprise, though lorries being delayed up to two days is a bit of an eye opener. Perhaps most worrying is what the ST refers to as a culture of not listening to experts when their views don't meet your own political views. No doubt Brexiteers will say any problems will simply be short term pain for long term gain. Fine, except the pain is not going to be born by them, of course - their wealth will always cushion the impact. However, all sides of the political spectrum need to have a good look in the mirror, because remainers are perhaps just as guilty of political obfuscation, in order to delay the process, meaning we could well end up in a worst case scenario. Part of me almost wants it to go tits up, so the hard line Brexiteers face total humiliation, but of course ultimately, they will still be fine, regardless. What is really needed is some common sense, to find workable compromises, but that ain't going to happen any time soon methinks. At the end of the day, anyone who voted Remain knew what they were getting. Voting Leave meant, and still means, many different things to many different people and there lies the problem. Cameron bollixed it up by not asking the right questions in the first place, which is why we are now in such a mess. Last time I heard, he was still pretty damn rich though, so why would he care? Good stuff, but why the pop at remainers? This isn't our mess, all we want is for it to stop - for the madness to end. A delayed Brexit or a soft Brexit or any other sort of Brexit is still a Brexit. We still lose our citizenship and the country still goes down the toilet.
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Post by daveu on Aug 18, 2019 10:27:05 GMT
With the leak to the Sunday Times about Operation Yellowhammer in the news, you have to wonder about ALL our politicians. The likelihood of certain foodstuffs and medicines being in short supply following a no deal Brexit is no surprise, though lorries being delayed up to two days is a bit of an eye opener. Perhaps most worrying is what the ST refers to as a culture of not listening to experts when their views don't meet your own political views. No doubt Brexiteers will say any problems will simply be short term pain for long term gain. Fine, except the pain is not going to be born by them, of course - their wealth will always cushion the impact. However, all sides of the political spectrum need to have a good look in the mirror, because remainers are perhaps just as guilty of political obfuscation, in order to delay the process, meaning we could well end up in a worst case scenario. Part of me almost wants it to go tits up, so the hard line Brexiteers face total humiliation, but of course ultimately, they will still be fine, regardless. What is really needed is some common sense, to find workable compromises, but that ain't going to happen any time soon methinks. At the end of the day, anyone who voted Remain knew what they were getting. Voting Leave meant, and still means, many different things to many different people and there lies the problem. Cameron bollixed it up by not asking the right questions in the first place, which is why we are now in such a mess. Last time I heard, he was still pretty damn rich though, so why would he care? Cameron fucked up by not having the debates about what sort of Brexit we wanted before the referendum. Then everyone would have known exactly what they were voting for, and if the result had still been a Brexit win, they would have been in a much stronger position because any debate could only have been over changes to the original plan.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2019 10:57:04 GMT
The problem with wanting it to go tits up and the protagonists having egg on their faces is they will blame it on everyone else. They have already begun. Johnson Farage Rees Mog The Sun and The Daily Fail et al will all be - Remainers weakening our negotiating position or the E.U. not giving in to our unreasonable demands
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Post by hammerstone on Aug 18, 2019 11:06:43 GMT
Anyone really wanting the country to go to pot just to massage a "Told you so" ego really needs their heads adjusting.
If we voted to remain, as much as its not a personal preference, Id want the country to get the best out of it regardless.
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Post by 61666 on Aug 18, 2019 11:36:30 GMT
Am afraid it is already happening. Ian Duncan Smith said as much on 'Hard Talk' last weekend. When asked the what if question about a no deal Brexit, he just shrugged as said they were only carrying out the will of the electorate. If that isn't being a smug bastard, I don't know what is.
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Post by distantfan on Aug 18, 2019 12:20:24 GMT
Brexit is infuriating me. I was never a massive fan of the EU. But prior to the referendum I realised I couldn’t support Leave because I didn’t know what version of ‘Leave’ we would get. More importantly, I didn’t trust the rich, posh boys that were leading the campaign as they had little to lose and couldn’t give a toss about the well-being of the rest of us.
Now there is no doubt we were lied to by the Leave supporting politicians. When they wanted our votes they said it would be easy and it would be beneficial. Now they talk about how difficult it is and how we overcame the Blitz. They are not even close to being up to the job.
There’s no economic positive in the Brexit-path these multi-millionaire ex-public schoolboys are taking us down. We should put a stop to it right now whilst we still can. If in a few years we decide we want to leave and we have taken the time to work out how to prevent massive delays of goods at our borders and how to make beneficial trade agreements with the EU and non-EU countries then that’s a different matter. For now, we are heading on a path to economic chaos.
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Post by pigbag on Aug 18, 2019 12:20:26 GMT
What we voted for was an exit from the political union of the EU, something we had never had an opportunity before to agree or disagree to. The ultimate aim of the EU has always been ever closer union, adoption by all countries of the Euro, a central government of the federation which would set taxes and decide foreign policy and regulate the union in the same way the Fed operates in the US. Germany is at the centre of the spiders web of communications and benefits most and of course they pay most into the union. Do you want to have your tax policy decided by the central government? We complain about the north/south divide now just think how that might be exaggerated in the future. We can change the course of our government every 4/5 years but the EU is at best a coalition of parties that would be difficult to change (maybe a good thing?) The president as we have found is the least worst person and not the best person to lead the union. As net recipients of trade we should be able to negotiate a trade deal with the EU when we leave just as they have with China and other countries who maintain their independence. Should we blame the EU? Well they made no secret of the fact they want to make leaving difficult to deter others (Italy?) from leaving. They seem to be prepared to let Eire take the hit rather than look at alternatives to a hard border. Just how much do the think will be smuggled without a border? As for experts remember the millennium bug, the recession if we did not join the Euro, the recession if we voted to leave? We trade with the world not just the EU and business has always managed. All this doom and gloom is laughable to those of us that saw how the UK and Germany recovered from WWII when we had to start from scratch. Uncertainty is what business and the market abhor so lets get out and start the rebuild.
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Post by daveu on Aug 18, 2019 14:12:04 GMT
And when we're forced to accept chlorinated chicken from the US because we no longer have the protection of EU hygiene regulations, how will you feel then? And that example will prove to be the tip of a very large iceberg.
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Post by pigbag on Aug 18, 2019 16:06:43 GMT
The chicken are chlorinated so as not to be a health risk. It is the way they are allowed to keep chicken that is wrong. Don't be so gullible. Same with eggs. In the US they have to be washed but in the UK washing is not allowed so as to preserve the protective coating. The country of origin is displayed on produce so you have a choice. Pretty poor reason to surrender our independence Dave but perhaps you would be happy to have our taxes decided by Brussels?
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Post by 61666 on Aug 18, 2019 17:11:45 GMT
Michael Gove now says the Sunday Times leak is old news and only a worst case scenario. So that's alright then - though he's conveniently forgetting that Operation Black Swan was the worst case jobbie. Oh and he's somewhat economical with the truth at times too. Here's an interesting thought: The government has a majority of just one, thanks to the Ulster Democrats. However, there is a handful of Sinn Fein MPs from Northern Ireland, who choose not to vote. One would have thought that somebody ought to be courting them by now, ie NOT the Tories. Or am I missing something?
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Post by sword65 on Aug 19, 2019 7:12:58 GMT
When did this turn into a cookery thread? Daveu is on about chickens and Icebergs,someone else is on about Leeks and now we have Brussels on the go mixed with a few eggs.
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Post by nws on Aug 19, 2019 7:51:35 GMT
Anyone really wanting the country to go to pot just to massage a "Told you so" ego really needs their heads adjusting. If we voted to remain, as much as its not a personal preference, Id want the country to get the best out of it regardless. I do agree with you there. It will be our lives that are ruined. The architects of this shambles will be ok though
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Post by hammerstone on Aug 19, 2019 8:26:22 GMT
Anyone really wanting the country to go to pot just to massage a "Told you so" ego really needs their heads adjusting. If we voted to remain, as much as its not a personal preference, Id want the country to get the best out of it regardless. I do agree with you there. It will be our lives that are ruined. The architects of this shambles will be ok though I think I need a sit down after finding we agree!
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