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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2018 18:48:22 GMT
Sorry, but no they are not the answer. Jay had more than enough time/chances and we were going backwards under his leadership. The club made the right choice getting rid, they just fucked up not appointing a proper manager.....If we had someone like Gary Hill, Hessenthaler, Kinnear or even Pennock we wouldn't be in this mess right now. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2018 18:52:39 GMT
Sorry, but no they are not the answer. Jay had more than enough time/chances and we were going backwards under his leadership. The club made the right choice getting rid, they just fucked up not appointing a proper manager.....If we had someone like Gary Hill, Hessenthaler, Kinnear or even Pennock we wouldn't be in this mess right now. What about - bring back Steve and Jay and give them all the money (and time) that Wheeler has had? £24k+ lower-league striker, anyone? |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2018 18:56:25 GMT
Blimey. Not on Twitter, so missed all this. Obviously doean't think there's any chance of coming back to MUFC! Also all the players that Harry showed the door are liking and retweeting Jay's post. So it just shows what they think of Wheeler....rather worrying that a lot of the players Harry cunted off in the press are due back from their loan in less than a month. So now we potentially have a problem with players returning feeling pissed off at what has been said about them. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2018 19:01:55 GMT
Sorry, but no they are not the answer. Jay had more than enough time/chances and we were going backwards under his leadership. The club made the right choice getting rid, they just fucked up not appointing a proper manager.....If we had someone like Gary Hill, Hessenthaler, Kinnear or even Pennock we wouldn't be in this mess right now. What about - bring back Steve and Jay and give them all the money (and time) that Wheeler has had? £24k+ lower-league striker, anyone? We gave Jay plenty of time last season and the beginning of this one. Remember we only won 6 in 36 league games, any other club would of shown him the door a long time before we did. No one can claim he wasn't given enough time to turn things around. Also I struggle to believe the claim from Billericay that they made a profit on Robinson. No way would we pay over 24k for a forward who is only on contract till the end of the season. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2018 19:17:08 GMT
Maybe if Harry hadn't got so many fans hopes up with his very positive and confident chat, and told people not to make any judgement till December, people might actually be a bit more forgiving. He set his standards so high, far too confident for someone with no managerial experience in this league.
We're lower down the table now than we was before he got the job and he wants fans to get used to "winning ugly"... well a win in itself would be nice Harry, ugly or not!!
Trying not to be anti but he hasn't helped himself at all.
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Post by gromley on Dec 14, 2018 19:28:31 GMT
Anyone know where we could get a couple of thousand black and amber clowns wigs before the next home game?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2018 20:05:47 GMT
Anyone know where we could get a couple of thousand black and amber clowns wigs before the next home game? He wouldn't get the joke - no sense of humour. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2018 21:18:55 GMT
Sorry, but no they are not the answer. Jay had more than enough time/chances and we were going backwards under his leadership. The club made the right choice getting rid, they just fucked up not appointing a proper manager.....If we had someone like Gary Hill, Hessenthaler, Kinnear or even Pennock we wouldn't be in this mess right now. Jay deserved more time. If they didn't replace him in the summer, they should at least have given him until Christmas (and the FAC money!) He dug us out of a mess twice, I'm sure he could have done it again. The first season he rebuilt the team so well that we were on cracking form for the rest of that season, and a good chunk of the next one. Unfortunately, he didn't have the funds to hold on to Piggott and Hines, so he had to rebuild again - not as successfully, but he managed it. The only thing really damning Jay was the player choices he made over the summer (although, not all of them, by any means), and we will never know why that was, and how much lack of funds played a part. But, whatever, a guy who gave us three promotions in 4 years and then saved us twice from relegation, at the very least deserved a chance to rebuild the team when it turned out some of his players were lemons. The few weeks he was given were not enough to do the job - he was judged on just 6 games - Harry has had 13. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2018 2:11:58 GMT
Sorry, but no they are not the answer. Jay had more than enough time/chances and we were going backwards under his leadership. The club made the right choice getting rid, they just fucked up not appointing a proper manager.....If we had someone like Gary Hill, Hessenthaler, Kinnear or even Pennock we wouldn't be in this mess right now. Jay deserved more time. If they didn't replace him in the summer, they should at least have given him until Christmas (and the FAC money!) He dug us out of a mess twice, I'm sure he could have done it again. The first season he rebuilt the team so well that we were on cracking form for the rest of that season, and a good chunk of the next one. Unfortunately, he didn't have the funds to hold on to Piggott and Hines, so he had to rebuild again - not as successfully, but he managed it. The only thing really damning Jay was the player choices he made over the summer (although, not all of them, by any means), and we will never know why that was, and how much lack of funds played a part. But, whatever, a guy who gave us three promotions in 4 years and then saved us twice from relegation, at the very least deserved a chance to rebuild the team when it turned out some of his players were lemons. The few weeks he was given were not enough to do the job - he was judged on just 6 games - Harry has had 13. It's not just a bad run of 6-7 game though, it's six wins in 36 league games!! Please tell me how that record deserves someone being given another 3-4 months and more money to try and sort it out?? Any other team in our league would of sacked him long before we did. Same with the league below or even the league below that. Just because he was friendly with the fans and did well a few years back it doesn't mean he should be free from criticism or be unsackable. I'm not even a fan of Harry, I think he was totally the wrong appointment and he needs to go sooner than later. But if this was Jay now sitting second bottom in the league with form of 1 win in 10, I bet you and many of the others currently moaning about Harry would be claiming he needs more time and the old saying of "In Jay we trust". Sorry but Jay isn't Alex Ferguson or the god some people make him out to be. He did well in the Leagues where we had one of the bigger budgets, but when we got in a league where we didn't out spend most of the teams he struggled. I stick by my statement of getting rid of Jay was the right choice, but the owners fucked up not appointing a proper manager. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2018 2:23:00 GMT
Also our bad run last season kicked in well before Pigott and Hines left. It's not like things suddenly went bad because they left, things started going bad in October when teams had started "working us out"
It wasn't much different then to it is now. Saunders pretty much just had us lumping the ball to Pigott...one difference was atleast the ball got close to pigs most of the time.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2018 7:47:10 GMT
Jay's not the answer, but Christ you do take the slightest excuse to start laying into him all over again. Give it a rest for Christ's sake. It's almost like a personal vendetta.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2018 7:50:26 GMT
It's not surprising that Harry's comments have stirred up a hornet's nest and he shouldn't have made them. As a young manager trying to make a name for himself he will have to learn from that and keep his mouth shut. Steve Watt is right of course - players usually hold their hands up and take the blame when they haven't been good enough, and it's important that a manager does the same thing. Harry is not prepared to admit it when he gets it wrong and it is making him hugely unpopular as a person. Naturally, as Jay was very popular, some are starting to pine for him. Time for a reality check.
Jay's main quality as a manager, without a shadow of a doubt, was his likeable personality. His teams, whether playing well or not, on the whole were a happy bunch who liked their gaffer, and enjoyed their job. But there were problems that were always going to show themselves when we got to National League level. Tactically Jay was a bit short of ideas, often sticking to the same old formula of pumping it up to a big man up front who was supposed to bring it down for the runners etc. With Jay May up there in the Ryman League that worked pretty well, but the cracks in the system started to show in the National South when, despite being promoted, we scored way too few goals and only a defence tighter than a gnat's chuff got us up.
Despite our terrible form in the second half of last season, Jay went out in the summer and found two huge centre-forwards, making it clear the tactics this season weren't going to change - and they didn't, nor did the results. For me, he had to go.
Of course, it's easy for the likes of DaveU to say "I told you so" about Jay's sacking because Harry is having such a torrid time but the reality is, if we'd brought in a different manager and they'd turned it round, nobody would be questioning the decision now, would they? Yes, Harry's appointment probably was a mistake and at some point if results don't improve quickly, the directors will have to make another change, but - some people need to take off their rose-tinted specs and remember what went before that led to Jay's demise. If we need to change again, it will surely need to be an experienced manager. Hindsight is a wonderful thing and I'm sure Terry wishes he'd gone with someone else now BUT I very much doubt he regrets letting Jay go as he had surely run his course as a manager with us.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2018 7:53:15 GMT
Jay's not the answer, but Christ you do take the slightest excuse to start laying into him all over again. Give it a rest for Christ's sake. It's almost like a personal vendetta. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz |
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Post by jakeyboi on Dec 15, 2018 8:44:48 GMT
Sorry, but no they are not the answer. Jay had more than enough time/chances and we were going backwards under his leadership. The club made the right choice getting rid, they just fucked up not appointing a proper manager.....If we had someone like Gary Hill, Hessenthaler, Kinnear or even Pennock we wouldn't be in this mess right now. Jay deserved more time. If they didn't replace him in the summer, they should at least have given him until Christmas (and the FAC money!) He dug us out of a mess twice, I'm sure he could have done it again. The first season he rebuilt the team so well that we were on cracking form for the rest of that season, and a good chunk of the next one. Unfortunately, he didn't have the funds to hold on to Piggott and Hines, so he had to rebuild again - not as successfully, but he managed it. The only thing really damning Jay was the player choices he made over the summer (although, not all of them, by any means), and we will never know why that was, and how much lack of funds played a part. But, whatever, a guy who gave us three promotions in 4 years and then saved us twice from relegation, at the very least deserved a chance to rebuild the team when it turned out some of his players were lemons. The few weeks he was given were not enough to do the job - he was judged on just 6 games - Harry has had 13. Really....... |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2018 8:53:10 GMT
What I find hard to understand is why all our recent managers have been so one dimensional. Presumably, in getting their coaching badges, even by just watching footy on TV, they learn both a range of tactics and how/when to apply them.
When H first joined, I got the impression he was trying to do that, by setting up the team according to the opposition. Indeed, the value of substitutions is to be able to change your set up and thereby change the game. Why are we no longer seeing that?
Is it because he feels the players are mentally incapable of learning more than one tactic? Surely not - the likes of Paxman, Cassidy, Phillips etc are better than that.
For all his verbal bravado, I sense H is developing more and more self doubt, falling back on a single tactic in the hope it gets him out of trouble and blaming everyone else when it doesn't work, in an effort to appear a strong leader.
The trouble with that is, it doesn't work, or at least it only works for a while, until you get found out. Good leadership requires a range of skills, sometimes likened to a set of golf clubs, where each one does a different job. Probably the most important skill is 'emotional intelligence', the ability to see situations from others' perspectives. When to be firm, when to be supportive etc. For all that he has this backroom team, I'm not sure H is using them as well as he might.
Likewise, are the players he has brought in a group of 'yes men', chosen to follow H's line and not contradict or argue? The signs are there, or why else would our previous in house leaders like Worgan and Lewis have left so quickly?
As many have said, me included, if Harry's Game works and we survive, we'll all be, mostly, happy. If we can but get a win, however ugly, just maybe, we might start to see a bit of variation coming into our play. If the run of defeats continue, then I wonder if H has the wherewithal to shake off his bunker mentality and admit defeat and resign, before it is too late.
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