Promotion and Relegation

[Deleted]

That Taunton/Torquay game on Tuesday is massive

[Deleted]

Challenging for promotion or even getting in the play offs appears to be messing with more than just Maidstone. Look at how Ipswich, Leeds and especially Leicester are dropping points in the Championship; ditto Liverpool and Arsenal, plus Rangers too. Seem to remember Sutton bottled promotion a few times and one wonders why?
It is a funny old game...

[Deleted]

It happened at least once in the Kent League days under PBB. We were running away with the league, and suddenly the wheels fell off, and we avoided promotion - you had to suspect (especially if you were a conspiracy theorist) it was intentional, as there wasn’t enough finance to support a campaign at a higher level.

[Deleted]

Apr 15, 2024 7:17:11 GMT headstone said:

It happened at least once in the Kent League days under PBB. We were running away with the league, and suddenly the wheels fell off, and we avoided promotion - you had to suspect (especially if you were a conspiracy theorist) it was intentional, as there wasn’t enough finance to support a campaign at a higher level.

We certainly fluffed it in the season we saw Steve Butler leave. Up to that point, I think we had won 9 and drawn 1 in our first ten games

[Deleted]

Plan A and Plan B.

www.kentonline.co.uk/maidstone/sport/maidstone-s-plan-a-and-plan-b-305286/

The story that says so much, yet so little.

[Deleted]

That’s exactly what the club said last time we were promoted.

[Deleted]

I'm in two minds (at least!) about promotion. Obviously, I'd like to see us win every game - and that means going up. And I'd like another crack at the NL (it may - or may not - be our natural level, but NS certainly isn't). But, if we stay in the NS for another year, I'd still be looking forward to next season - it's going to be an interesting division, and probably a more challenging one.

[Deleted]

But, what if we do go up?

Lessons learned, is the obvious answer. Last time, there was one very obvious lesson - don't believe your own hype. We thought we were a championship side, and on that strength we could take the NL without much change, and we thought Hak was a good manager who'd have no problems in the NL. I think we had actually learned our lessons from the first time, but, with Hak not being up to the job, awful retainment and recruitment decisions, and all the distractions at Board level, we never really had a chance to implement them. That season was a disaster almost from the off.

But our first time in the NL was actually pretty much a success, especially for a 'new' club, doing it for the fist time. We finished 14th, but were actually on the same points as the 11th placed club. We'd also survived a mid-season slump, with Jay successfully rebuilding the team. All in all, a pretty good first season.

And the second season wasn't bad either, especially the first half. We didn't finish as high and had a bit of a squeaky bum time after another rebuild when Pigott left, but we finished on 19th, comfortably clear of relegation and only 2 points off our first season position. That was also hardly the easiest of season - with ex-EFL clubs like Tranmere, Wrexham and Orient, and monied up clubs like Macclesfield, Boreham Wood, Fleet, Fylde and even Dover. It's a mark of what a strong division it was by the clubs that went down - Woking, Torquay and Chester.

And then , of course, it all went tits up. We got overconfident, started to believe we belonged in the NL and got our just deserts. Instead of understanding the difficulties of Jay's job and giving him more support, he was sacked (for doing what - keeping us up for two seasons with almost no resources?). And then the Board were hypnotised by the snake-oil salesman - and, with the Clown in charge, we were pretty much doomed.

In summary, then - two seasons where we did pretty well (but probably didn't realise it), and two seasons where we cocked it up completely and paid the price.

So, lessons learned? Well, we all know the first one - The NL is hard, bloody hard. But I think there are four other key factors to surviving in the NL: 1) Take it seriously, structure and run the club as a NL club. 2) Get the right manager. 3) Get the retainment and recruitment right. 4) Don't believe your own hype - it takes work and luck to stay in the NL, it is not your right to be there.

And, I think, those lessons have been learned. With George we have the right manager - not only for running the club, but also for recruitment and taking hard decisions. There's no chance of George saddling himself with a squad of players who 'deserve' to be there because they did OK last season - nor putting up with any shit from the Board. The way the club operates has also been vastly improved (compare and contrast with our amateur set-up in 2016). And lastly, we (including the supporters) have leaned a hard lesson - we have no right to be in the NL.

When we went up in 2016, all the talk was about, not the NL, but what we need to do to get into the FL! Three promotions in 4 seasons, and our history of success in the old Conference and promotion to Div 4, mislead us completely into thinking that getting into the NL was just the next step in getting our rightful League position back.

This time, we know there is only one goal for us if we get promoted - to survive in the NL. Just that, nothing else. If we manage that for a few seasons, then we can start thinking about doing better, perhaps getting promoted. But, first and foremost, we have to survive, consolidate, and prove that we deserve our place.

[Dan]

Agree with much of above.
It does concern me that Dorking Wanderers with double our playing budget, found the pace too hot.
No question, it will be tough.
But to be honest, on the balance of probabilities, we will still be in the NLS next season.

[Deleted]

Apr 18, 2024 10:15:22 GMT Dan said:

Agree with much of above.
It does concern me that Dorking Wanderers with double our playing budget, found the pace too hot.
No question, it will be tough.
But to be honest, on the balance of probabilities, we will still be in the NLS next season.

Dorking’s problems stem almost entirely from being one man’s hobby club. You can get away with it to an extent up to NLS. NL is a much more professional league and having the owner in charge of on field matters is a recipe for disaster.

[Deleted]

Apr 18, 2024 10:25:25 GMT daveu said:

Apr 18, 2024 10:15:22 GMT Dan said:

Agree with much of above.
It does concern me that Dorking Wanderers with double our playing budget, found the pace too hot.
No question, it will be tough.
But to be honest, on the balance of probabilities, we will still be in the NLS next season.

Dorking’s problems stem almost entirely from being one man’s hobby club. You can get away with it to an extent up to NLS. NL is a much more professional league and having the owner in charge of on field matters is a recipe for disaster.

Nobody is expert enough to comment on Maidstone United but you are qualified enough to comment on the structures at Dorking?

[Deleted]

Apr 18, 2024 10:25:25 GMT daveu said:

Apr 18, 2024 10:15:22 GMT Dan said:

Agree with much of above.
It does concern me that Dorking Wanderers with double our playing budget, found the pace too hot.
No question, it will be tough.
But to be honest, on the balance of probabilities, we will still be in the NLS next season.

Dorking’s problems stem almost entirely from being one man’s hobby club. You can get away with it to an extent up to NLS. NL is a much more professional league and having the owner in charge of on field matters is a recipe for disaster.

Spot on. Relegated by his ego.

Although, in fairness also promoted from friends having a kick-about to NL by his ego.

What goes up comes down...

[Deleted]

I was going to cite North Ferriby United in the above post as an example of taking a small club to great heights by pumping in money, and how it always goes wrong. But when I checked up on them, I discovered it had got even worse than I thought - they actually went into liquidation* a few years after being in the NL (owing just £7,645).

As you could get the entire population of North Ferriby into our stadium, this was a real 'hobby club' story. A local family, the Forsters (who I think had won the lottery - or similar) took over the club and funded it up to the NL, but then had to sell when they had serious health problems (if memory serves). Despite having a large potential catchment area - they are right next to Hull) they never managed to turn that success into a sustainable income, getting gates of only 600 or so, even in the NL.

So, not quite a Dorking Wanderers equivalent (Dorking did at least manage to build decent attendances), but it was very similar situation.


*A "sustainable" phoenix club (North Ferriby FC) has since been started up by a local consortium, and that's doing well (just missed out on NPL East Division play-offs this season). So there's a sort of happy ending, after all - the fans have still got their local club back.

[Deleted]

There are a few parallels between Dorking and ourselves. Similar attendances, 3G pitch, small ground struggling to cope with big crowds, not spending beyond their means, promoted to the National League for a couple of seasons before coming back down, probably destined to be a yo-yo club until there is a massive change in their fortunes. I think they’ll be around for a long time, unlike some others who had a rapid rise up the leagues (coughEbbsfleetcough).

thebusinessmagazine.co.uk/companies/dorking-wanderers-smashes-seedrs-fundraising-target/

[Deleted]

Shaq Coulthurst recalled by Ebbsfleet so a bit of Briantree’s firepower diminishes for the playoffs