Are we a small club with a big ground and attendance !

[mekon]

Many supporters have commented that we are far too big a club to be playing in the National South.

But are we really a small team , culture and approach, that happens to have a big ground and supporter base ?

I for one am fed up going to away matches in grotty ground, with grotty facilities, smaller income and squad only to watch us comprehensively beaten.

We have to also recognise that the owners & Bill have made some catastrophic decisions regarding management etc. it’s is not just down to the team management.

So are we really a Ryman Team with an over large ground and supporter base rather than the Billy Big jobs we think we are?

Perhaps we should manage our expectations and accept mid level mediocrity is our natural level ?

[pwoodstone]

I know what you mean but I disagree with expecting to go away and win.

We have careful owners.

As much as they’re clearly the best owners, I think a non- executive appointment with football experience could be a good idea.

They are great business men and that side of the club is first class.

[mekon]

I think the non-executive exec is an excellent idea and from what I perceive is much needed.
Whilst I am sure Oliver and Terry are astute business people , football wise everything pivots on what happens on the pitch with the first team. We have under achieved for some seasons regaling first team performances.
But ok if you are happy being a small team comfortable in mid table obscurity season after season,

[61666]

Much as I would never criticise our owners for the way they run the club, managerial appointments have not exactly worked out of late. Post Saunders, it feels like little, if anything has worked out for any length of time.
The Club's owners are decent people, but (discounting the Wheeler debacle), I'm wondering if by appointing similarly decent people as team managers has been our central problem? Jay likewise a decent man.
You don't appoint a manager or deputy who is the same as you. You appoint one who compliments what you do and fills the gaps in covering those areas you are less good at yourself. If there is to be a change, it needs to be a completely fresh approach.

[shamstone]

Nov 6, 2021 20:36:06 GMT 61666 said:

Much as I would never criticise our owners for the way they run the club, managerial appointments have not exactly worked out of late. Post Saunders, it feels like little, if anything has worked out for any length of time.
The Club's owners are decent people, but (discounting the Wheeler debacle), I'm wondering if by appointing similarly decent people as team managers has been our central problem? Jay likewise a decent man.
You don't appoint a manager or deputy who is the same as you. You appoint one who compliments what you do and fills the gaps in covering those areas you are less good at yourself. If there is to be a change, it needs to be a completely fresh approach.

What we need is a bastard of a manager who only cares about winning. That’s it

[hongkongstone]

Nov 6, 2021 23:33:09 GMT shamstone said:

Nov 6, 2021 20:36:06 GMT 61666 said:

Much as I would never criticise our owners for the way they run the club, managerial appointments have not exactly worked out of late. Post Saunders, it feels like little, if anything has worked out for any length of time.
The Club's owners are decent people, but (discounting the Wheeler debacle), I'm wondering if by appointing similarly decent people as team managers has been our central problem? Jay likewise a decent man.
You don't appoint a manager or deputy who is the same as you. You appoint one who compliments what you do and fills the gaps in covering those areas you are less good at yourself. If there is to be a change, it needs to be a completely fresh approach.

What we need is a bastard of a manager who only cares about winning. That’s it

The classic approach was and probably still is the Brian Clough-Peter Taylor axis. One played 'good cop' and the other 'bad cop'. I will let you work out who was which.

[hongkongstone]

And if I may add, we were promoted to the NL in 2016 alongside Sutton United who as far as I am aware do not have a sugar daddy and had lower crowds. Whre are they now and ca we identify the differences? Clue: It's not all about money!

[mrplow]

I don’t know what it is about they owners and bill but they can’t seem or don’t want to spend money on the one thing the club desperately needs which is a decent manager. I think they very reluctant to gamble on that experienced manager the stones need for whatever reason? John still only came back because he’s Bill’s pal it was a good, nostalgic appointment but I bet your bottom dollar no one wanted Hakan in the long run. We seem to put a decent amount in this season on the playing budget maybe leave some for a manager who can take the club back to the National league. If that doesn’t work might as well bring back Saunders.

[swampy]

The club has become victims of it's own success. When it appointed Jay we was still playing at Sittingbourne and his first full season was managing in Ryman South.
Did he make mistakes? Yeah plenty, I'm sure but as the opposition wasn't that great and most fans were just happy at being back home he got away them. Momentum grew and with a few good FA Cup runs and a couple of promotions we found ourselves in the National league.
Was the club ready? No not at all but unfortunately the Genie is out of the bottle as far as expectations.
We now get League 2 attendances and have facilities to match. Every club now sees us as their cup final and sets out a game plan to stop us playing and beat us.
The key for the owner's is to manage expectations and find an experienced manager that can cope with that expectation and take the club back to and compete in the National League.

[61666]

[/quote]What we need is a bastard of a manager who only cares about winning. That’s it[/quote]

Not quite, though that approach has worked well in the short term over a number of scenarios - Hitler, Mussolini and Stalin being prime examples.
Management Theory likens good leadership to a set of golf clubs, in that you need several different types/styles to go round the course - woods and long irons for distance, lofted clubs to get you out of trouble and the all important putter on the green.
Seems to me our recent managers have been far too limited in their approach. Do we have other teams watched, so we can set our own line up to try and stifle them? Other teams certainly do that to us and are becoming ever more successful at it because we are so predictable. Seems like our golf bag of game play has a three wood and little else at the moment. Whack it and hope.
John Still was very much a 'system' man. If everybody did their job, his team was difficult to score against. At least that was the idea. It also meant players had the flair stifled put of them and of course as his favoured pupil, Hak tends to fall into the same trap.
In trying not to concede, we now create very little. After each defeat, the mantra is 'back to the training ground and work harder'. But work harder at what? I'd be more reassured if it was 'work SMARTER', because if a national team like Andorra or San Marino can be set up to only lose by three to five goals to the likes of England, Belgium, etc then it proves that a well marshalled defence can (mostly) cope with players from many levels higher up the pyramid. They don't score many though.
If you keep doing the same thing, there is no point in hoping things will somehow change. If it ain't broke, don't fix it, is fine, but we are looking very crocked at the moment, so a change of approach and/or leadership is needed to stop the rot. Do Hak and Terry have the ability to change their approach to something better? The evidence for that is not great...

[daveu]

Nov 7, 2021 1:16:37 GMT hongkongstone said:

And if I may add, we were promoted to the NL in 2016 alongside Sutton United who as far as I am aware do not have a sugar daddy and had lower crowds. Whre are they now and ca we identify the differences? Clue: It's not all about money!

Wrong about the sugar daddy. Doswell ploughed his personal fortune in while he was managing them, including paying for a 3G pitch they had to dig up a few years later.

[daveu]

How good does the manager have to be if the players are doing their job. If we had even one striker who deserved the name no one would be criticising Hak. He's tried every combination now and it seems none of them could find the goal if you gave them a map. We had two open goals second half yesterday, one was straight at the keeper, the other was so far off target it nearly hit the corner flag.

[Rob]

Well we can agree on something, Hak has recruited some very poor strikers.
But playing around with the formation and personnel has made matters worse, with the overall team performance taking a hit.
Team management is now beginning to look hapless and hopeless.
Confidence seems to be draining away.
Yesterdays's effort was shambolic with the team looking a shadow of the side a few weeks ago.

[ade]

We were very pedestrian with a lack of energy. The only urgency we had was after they scored. Deacon and Corne being the exception. There did seem to be a lack of a leader out on the pitch.

[edos78]

Nov 7, 2021 11:06:32 GMT ade said:

We were very pedestrian with a lack of energy. The only urgency we had was after they scored. Deacon and Corne being the exception. There did seem to be a lack of a leader out on the pitch.

Corne was excellent but I disagree on Deacon - no doubt he has quality but too often yesterday he overplayed, plenty of eye pleasing skill but no end product

I’d give McGlashan a run on the right - he’s much more direct with more consistent results

and then put Deacon behind a striker