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Post by Better things to do in life on Dec 2, 2019 22:01:29 GMT
I did see the article you have linked although I preferred the Independent article I took because it didn't start throwing everything it could possibly think of to try and bolster a flimsy link to being a terrorist. He basically asked for the UK government to condemn the killing of unarmed civilians and to freeze arms sales a country that is - considered by many - to be occupying land illegally. Again what bit of that do you think is bad? Can I ask if the government did condemn it? The article you cite then goes on to some nonsense about calling Hamas 'friends' (this occurred in the House of Commons - yes these people were considered so dangerous) and the fact that he laid a wreath at a ceremony near to some other graves of people who are pretty reprehensible. I hate to say it but I've been to Highate Ceremony yet I am not a supporter of criminality (Adam Worth / Bruce Reynolds), Horse slaughtering (John Atcheler), Iranian communism and the 1979 Iranian revolution (Mansoor Hekmat) or indeed Marxism. I've also had the misfortune to be in the company of still alive, sentence-served murderers (twice) and possible paedophiles. I can happily tell you that I support none of their actions either! I note you have refused to acknowledge the fact that the 2017 Labour manifesto included lines about wanting Palestine to stop rocket attacks on Israel and I notice you also avoid the point about - now outlawed - arms sales to Saudi Arabia and the fact that Corbyn was against this while your heroes were busy telling us it was OK because we needed the dosh and jobs. And you had the cheek to tell me I ignored things that were inconvenient. So far you have shown me that Corbyn has supported things that peacefully oppose illegal (and forceful) occupations and condemn the killing of unarmed civilians. So far, not a scrap of real evidence of pro-terrorist support, not a scrap of evidence of being anti-Jewish. Some evidence of anti-Israeli policy. To be honest, I once walked around the holocaust museum in and around Jerusalem. What has been done to the Jews, particularly in the early part of the last century is truly horrific and should be condemned at every twist and turn. However, there was still this nagging voice about how the Palestinians were pretty much thrown out of their lands with an awfully large dollop of help from the UK. Oh and please note that the UN did what Jeremy Corbyn was calling for. It condemned the Israeli actions with a vote of 120 for 8 against and 45 abstentions. We were one of the abstentions. I guess the UN is pro-terrorist So does your nagging voice tell you it’s ok for the Palestinians to constantly send rockets into Israel and dig multiple tunnels to send suicide bombers in to murder innocent Israeli citizens? Let’s face it - I have done what you asked and given you links and you have done what I expected and trashed them with your own views and accused me of being single minded and unchanging! (A bit hypocritical perhaps?) Just as I expected. Apart from being apart in our beliefs the main difference is you really believe your many words and greater research from sources fitting your views wins the argument and makes you more intellectual. I could waste more time countering with more references countering your countering and similarly supporting my views but it’s really not that important to me as I never aspired to be a politician or a lawyer - which of course you will take as an admission of defeat and proof of the weakness of my argument, which it isn’t - just weakness in stamina and incentive to justify myself on a football pro board! It’s obviously more important to you though so I bow to your superior intellectual stamina and obsessions and throw in the towel on this one. Sleep well!
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Post by nws on Dec 2, 2019 22:08:47 GMT
OMG I do respect your persistence nws and your determination to publish the facts But surely you must know you are wasting your with oldboy and those of a similar ilk. Evidence based facts are easily revised to prove the opposite in this era of fake news But Corbynists are fixated with the destruction of Israel above all other causes – even in the Grauniad ww.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/30/antisemitism-poisons-any-good-labour-doing-simon-sebag-montefiore Oh dear, you are really out of your depth now, aren't you. Just posting articles you dig up in the hope that it will appear you have read them. Firstly, the article you post is slating Labour about anti-Semitism and it is written by a Jew. Attacking Israel is not the same as anti-Semitism. Can you point me towards something where someone is wanting to destroy Israel? I won't disagree that Corbyn's Labour party has been seemingly sluggish over dealing with some fairly horrible people in it's midst (e.g. Liam Moore) and it is what put me off them. To claim, from that, that Corbyn is pro-terrorist is a ridiculous jump though.
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Post by sword65 on Dec 2, 2019 22:27:18 GMT
Does anybody really give a shit. The country is fucked whoever's wins the election because they are all TOSSERS!
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Post by nws on Dec 3, 2019 10:44:58 GMT
I did see the article you have linked although I preferred the Independent article I took because it didn't start throwing everything it could possibly think of to try and bolster a flimsy link to being a terrorist. He basically asked for the UK government to condemn the killing of unarmed civilians and to freeze arms sales a country that is - considered by many - to be occupying land illegally. Again what bit of that do you think is bad? Can I ask if the government did condemn it? The article you cite then goes on to some nonsense about calling Hamas 'friends' (this occurred in the House of Commons - yes these people were considered so dangerous) and the fact that he laid a wreath at a ceremony near to some other graves of people who are pretty reprehensible. I hate to say it but I've been to Highate Ceremony yet I am not a supporter of criminality (Adam Worth / Bruce Reynolds), Horse slaughtering (John Atcheler), Iranian communism and the 1979 Iranian revolution (Mansoor Hekmat) or indeed Marxism. I've also had the misfortune to be in the company of still alive, sentence-served murderers (twice) and possible paedophiles. I can happily tell you that I support none of their actions either! I note you have refused to acknowledge the fact that the 2017 Labour manifesto included lines about wanting Palestine to stop rocket attacks on Israel and I notice you also avoid the point about - now outlawed - arms sales to Saudi Arabia and the fact that Corbyn was against this while your heroes were busy telling us it was OK because we needed the dosh and jobs. And you had the cheek to tell me I ignored things that were inconvenient. So far you have shown me that Corbyn has supported things that peacefully oppose illegal (and forceful) occupations and condemn the killing of unarmed civilians. So far, not a scrap of real evidence of pro-terrorist support, not a scrap of evidence of being anti-Jewish. Some evidence of anti-Israeli policy. To be honest, I once walked around the holocaust museum in and around Jerusalem. What has been done to the Jews, particularly in the early part of the last century is truly horrific and should be condemned at every twist and turn. However, there was still this nagging voice about how the Palestinians were pretty much thrown out of their lands with an awfully large dollop of help from the UK. Oh and please note that the UN did what Jeremy Corbyn was calling for. It condemned the Israeli actions with a vote of 120 for 8 against and 45 abstentions. We were one of the abstentions. I guess the UN is pro-terrorist So does your nagging voice tell you it’s ok for the Palestinians to constantly send rockets into Israel and dig multiple tunnels to send suicide bombers in to murder innocent Israeli citizens? Let’s face it - I have done what you asked and given you links and you have done what I expected and trashed them with your own views and accused me of being single minded and unchanging! (A bit hypocritical perhaps?) Just as I expected. Apart from being apart in our beliefs the main difference is you really believe your many words and greater research from sources fitting your views wins the argument and makes you more intellectual. I could waste more time countering with more references countering your countering and similarly supporting my views but it’s really not that important to me as I never aspired to be a politician or a lawyer - which of course you will take as an admission of defeat and proof of the weakness of my argument, which it isn’t - just weakness in stamina and incentive to justify myself on a football pro board! It’s obviously more important to you though so I bow to your superior intellectual stamina and obsessions and throw in the towel on this one. Sleep well! I haven't trashed your links with my own views. I have trashed your one-sided view and wild accusations with facts. To answer your question...No, the actions of the Palestinians who become suicide bombers or launch rockets into civilian populations are equally as awful, as the army that mows down civilians. Do you think unarmed people simply protesting the loss of their land should be bombed? You feel I am hypocritical and unchanging. I am more in the middle of things. I think Corbyn should be held to account as to why he allows people to hold such views and remain in his party for way too long (giving them chance to air his views). I am yet to see anything that says he is pro-terrorist and anti-Semite that has come from him. You have said these things then presented flimsy evidence. When this is pointed out (and it appears that my research was better than yours - possibly by dint of the fact that I actually bothered to watch the videos you sent rather than rely on the sensationalist headlines presenting them) you do this, get all upset, denounce me as unbending in my views and start some nonsense about my ego etc etc (yawn). By the way, parts of the research I spoke on was presented by you so quite how you now resort to babbling on about me getting research to fit my views is beyond me. Any research I presented has been routinely ignored by you (arms sales to Saudis ring a bell) and you have quickly run from those little inconvenient facts. The truth is that you have made wild allegations, spectacularly failed to back them up with any real evidence and it is evident that it is all supposition in your mind (probably planted by some blogger or a tabloid). I'm not necessarily more intellectual, just more willing to read but you keep telling yourself that you failed to convince me because my ego is too big and not because of your intransigence.
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Post by nws on Dec 3, 2019 10:48:17 GMT
Does anybody really give a shit. The country is fucked whoever's wins the election because they are all TOSSERS! I do because we have been trading for three years, or more, on people making up lies to gain traction with a part of the population which is angry. They have, IMHO, preyed on this to gain advantage for themselves. I just want facts not tabloid lies from billionaires. I take it you won't vote of you don't care?
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Post by sword65 on Dec 3, 2019 11:19:51 GMT
Does anybody really give a shit. The country is fucked whoever's wins the election because they are all TOSSERS! I do because we have been trading for three years, or more, on people making up lies to gain traction with a part of the population which is angry. They have, IMHO, preyed on this to gain advantage for themselves. I just want facts not tabloid lies from billionaires. I take it you won't vote of you don't care? What you want will never happen and we both know that . As for me voting I have said it before and will say it again I cannot and will not vote Tory as I have never forgiven them for what Thatcher did to the hard working miners and their families and for destroying whole communities. I cannot abide Corbyn and so my usual Labour vote is in serious doubt and so I haven't made my mind up yet. I am though living in a very safe area with a huge Tory majority and I cannot see that changing whichever way I go but I will vote most definitely.
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Post by royalstone on Dec 3, 2019 12:03:52 GMT
I do because we have been trading for three years, or more, on people making up lies to gain traction with a part of the population which is angry. They have, IMHO, preyed on this to gain advantage for themselves. I just want facts not tabloid lies from billionaires. I take it you won't vote of you don't care? What you want will never happen and we both know that . As for me voting I have said it before and will say it again I cannot and will not vote Tory as I have never forgiven them for what Thatcher did to the hard working miners and their families and for destroying whole communities. I cannot abide Corbyn and so my usual Labour vote is in serious doubt and so I haven't made my mind up yet. I am though living in a very safe area with a huge Tory majority and I cannot see that changing whichever way I go but I will vote most definitely. I'm in the same boat as you with this one sword. I've usually voted Labour in the past but Corbyn is dangerously idealogical, ok as a backbencher but not intelligent enough to be PM. Toying with voting Lib Dem but haven't fully forgiven them for propping up Cameron's government and doing a complete U turn on key pledge about student fees so will probably spoil my paper in protest as cant see anyone fit to govern at the moment ( spoilt papers do get counted).
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Post by Better things to do in life on Dec 3, 2019 12:21:17 GMT
But Corbynists are fixated with the destruction of Israel above all other causes – even in the Grauniad ww.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/30/antisemitism-poisons-any-good-labour-doing-simon-sebag-montefiore Oh dear, you are really out of your depth now, aren't you. Just posting articles you dig up in the hope that it will appear you have read them. Firstly, the article you post is slating Labour about anti-Semitism and it is written by a Jew. Attacking Israel is not the same as anti-Semitism. Can you point me towards something where someone is wanting to destroy Israel? I won't disagree that Corbyn's Labour party has been seemingly sluggish over dealing with some fairly horrible people in it's midst (e.g. Liam Moore) and it is what put me off them. To claim, from that, that Corbyn is pro-terrorist is a ridiculous jump though. NWS you claim to know so much and know so little. The Israeli people are Jewish. Israel is their homeland so to be anti Israel is to be anti Jewish in the same way as to be anti Great Britain is to be anti British. It’s not rocket science. Also Iran Palestine Lebanon and almost all Middle Eastern nations surrounding Israel - also Turkey - have stated openly that they want to wipe Israel off the face of the map. No I’m not going to give you the links for you to dispute them look them up yourself but the fact that you don’t know already that nations led by extremist Islamic governments like Turkey and Palestine shocks me. You really aren’t as well informed as you make out!
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Post by davec on Dec 3, 2019 12:30:52 GMT
Oh dear, you are really out of your depth now, aren't you. Just posting articles you dig up in the hope that it will appear you have read them. Firstly, the article you post is slating Labour about anti-Semitism and it is written by a Jew. Attacking Israel is not the same as anti-Semitism. Can you point me towards something where someone is wanting to destroy Israel? I won't disagree that Corbyn's Labour party has been seemingly sluggish over dealing with some fairly horrible people in it's midst (e.g. Liam Moore) and it is what put me off them. To claim, from that, that Corbyn is pro-terrorist is a ridiculous jump though. NWS you claim to know so much and know so little. The Israeli people are Jewish. Israel is their homeland so to be anti Israel is to be anti Jewish in the same way as to be anti Great Britain is to be anti British. It’s not rocket science. Also Iran Palestine Lebanon and almost all Middle Eastern nations surrounding Israel - also Turkey - have stated openly that they want to wipe Israel off the face of the map. No I’m not going to give you the links for you to dispute them look them up yourself but the fact that you don’t know already that nations led by extremist Islamic governments like Turkey and Palestine shocks me. You really aren’t as well informed as you make out! I am afraid you could not be more wrong.Judaism is a religion whereas Israel is a nation state. The actions of the government of Israel are at least questionable which is what Corbyn does. By your logic slagging off Venezuela is anti Spanish
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Post by nws on Dec 3, 2019 12:40:01 GMT
Oh dear, you are really out of your depth now, aren't you. Just posting articles you dig up in the hope that it will appear you have read them. Firstly, the article you post is slating Labour about anti-Semitism and it is written by a Jew. Attacking Israel is not the same as anti-Semitism. Can you point me towards something where someone is wanting to destroy Israel? I won't disagree that Corbyn's Labour party has been seemingly sluggish over dealing with some fairly horrible people in it's midst (e.g. Liam Moore) and it is what put me off them. To claim, from that, that Corbyn is pro-terrorist is a ridiculous jump though. NWS you claim to know so much and know so little. The Israeli people are Jewish. Israel is their homeland so to be anti Israel is to be anti Jewish in the same way as to be anti Great Britain is to be anti British. It’s not rocket science. Also Iran Palestine Lebanon and almost all Middle Eastern nations surrounding Israel - also Turkey - have stated openly that they want to wipe Israel off the face of the map. No I’m not going to give you the links for you to dispute them look them up yourself but the fact that you don’t know already that nations led by extremist Islamic governments like Turkey and Palestine shocks me. You really aren’t as well informed as you make out! What are babbling on about now? I know about the governments in the countries you go on about. I've been to Turkey and, because it was the year after going to Israel chuckled at the fact they wouldn't stamp my passport on the following page (putting it at the back). Just because I don't agree with Israel blowing up hapless civilians doesn't mean I support lunatic governments, as a result. That is precisely the black/white leap you appear to have made with Corbyn, that I have been exposing. Instead of learning, you just repeat the mistake. Just to inform you, Jews live all over the world not just in Israel. If I didn't like Israel (I like Israel as it goes) because I didn't agree with it's foreign policy wouldn't mean I hate Jews. Jewish is a religion/faith/culture. Israel is a state. Obviously that is rocket science for you! Oh and extra info for you. 51% of Jews live in USA so Israel is not their homeland (it has around 30% of the world's Jews) although I do accept that many see big significance in Israel. I shall look forward to your next shotgun approach...
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Post by nws on Dec 3, 2019 13:00:02 GMT
The Israeli people are Jewish. Israel is their homeland so to be anti Israel is to be anti Jewish in the same way as to be anti Great Britain is to be anti British. It’s not rocket science. You really aren’t as well informed as you make out! When did Britishness become a religion? Hilarious.
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Post by nws on Dec 3, 2019 13:36:08 GMT
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Post by 61666 on Dec 3, 2019 15:50:29 GMT
Appalling, but we knew that anyway. POTUS meanwhile said he wasn't going to get involved in our election, only to immediately give a plug to Buck Foris and suggest he had no idea who Corbyn was. Still, by his own admission, he is very easy to get along with - though suspect the sentence probably finishes with 'as long as you give me what I want.' Great words from the father of the young man murdered on London Bridge, way above anything most politicians are capable of, you'd think. As for Israel, went there earlier this year and toured much of the country, in company with a very informative guide and lots of background reading. Yes, a lot of Jews live there, but more than a few Arabs and Christians too. WAY more guns on show than in the States, which is saying something. They certain don't seem to get on with their neighbours, but found it interesting that Egypt is the principal mediator for the Gaza strip issues. Isreal prefers to use tanks and missiles though and having the Patriot missile 'iron dome' no doubt helps too.
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Post by Better things to do in life on Dec 3, 2019 16:26:07 GMT
NWS you claim to know so much and know so little. The Israeli people are Jewish. Israel is their homeland so to be anti Israel is to be anti Jewish in the same way as to be anti Great Britain is to be anti British. It’s not rocket science. Also Iran Palestine Lebanon and almost all Middle Eastern nations surrounding Israel - also Turkey - have stated openly that they want to wipe Israel off the face of the map. No I’m not going to give you the links for you to dispute them look them up yourself but the fact that you don’t know already that nations led by extremist Islamic governments like Turkey and Palestine shocks me. You really aren’t as well informed as you make out! What are babbling on about now? I know about the governments in the countries you go on about. I've been to Turkey and, because it was the year after going to Israel chuckled at the fact they wouldn't stamp my passport on the following page (putting it at the back). Just because I don't agree with Israel blowing up hapless civilians doesn't mean I support lunatic governments, as a result. That is precisely the black/white leap you appear to have made with Corbyn, that I have been exposing. Instead of learning, you just repeat the mistake. Just to inform you, Jews live all over the world not just in Israel. If I didn't like Israel (I like Israel as it goes) because I didn't agree with it's foreign policy wouldn't mean I hate Jews. Jewish is a religion/faith/culture. Israel is a state. Obviously that is rocket science for you! Oh and extra info for you. 51% of Jews live in USA so Israel is not their homeland (it has around 30% of the world's Jews) although I do accept that many see big significance in Israel. I shall look forward to your next shotgun approach... What are YOU babbling about? Jews are a race of people. Judaism is ONE of their religions. Their is no such religion as Jewish. You can have Messianic Jews who are Christians. Being Jewish is not a religion by itself. Israel is their homeland from bible times - read it sometime. Btw The historical Israel of the Bible was considerably larger than the tiny country they have today. They were scattered all around the world but are slowly returning since 1948 to their homeland. It’s called Aliyah. Israelis are Jews, of different religions . So to hate one is to hate the other. Nothing to do with Venezuelans and Spaniards, that’s just mocking and confusing. Here I now bow out for good from this ignorance as I am sure the next wave of insults will be off the charts and I just don’t want to read any more.
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Post by daveu on Dec 3, 2019 19:09:56 GMT
What are babbling on about now? I know about the governments in the countries you go on about. I've been to Turkey and, because it was the year after going to Israel chuckled at the fact they wouldn't stamp my passport on the following page (putting it at the back). Just because I don't agree with Israel blowing up hapless civilians doesn't mean I support lunatic governments, as a result. That is precisely the black/white leap you appear to have made with Corbyn, that I have been exposing. Instead of learning, you just repeat the mistake. Just to inform you, Jews live all over the world not just in Israel. If I didn't like Israel (I like Israel as it goes) because I didn't agree with it's foreign policy wouldn't mean I hate Jews. Jewish is a religion/faith/culture. Israel is a state. Obviously that is rocket science for you! Oh and extra info for you. 51% of Jews live in USA so Israel is not their homeland (it has around 30% of the world's Jews) although I do accept that many see big significance in Israel. I shall look forward to your next shotgun approach... What are YOU babbling about? Jews are a race of people. Judaism is ONE of their religions. Their is no such religion as Jewish. You can have Messianic Jews who are Christians. Being Jewish is not a religion by itself. Israel is their homeland from bible times - read it sometime. Btw The historical Israel of the Bible was considerably larger than the tiny country they have today. They were scattered all around the world but are slowly returning since 1948 to their homeland. It’s called Aliyah. Israelis are Jews, of different religions . So to hate one is to hate the other. Nothing to do with Venezuelans and Spaniards, that’s just mocking and confusing. Here I now bow out for good from this ignorance as I am sure the next wave of insults will be off the charts and I just don’t want to read any more. Good
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