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Post by nws on Nov 2, 2019 20:02:59 GMT
How will the Greens get on in this Election do you think ? Im not expecting much because this election will be framed as a second referendum (which it isnt). Johnson is wanting to appear to be the brexit hero. If he gets in i, for one, will be interested to know whether he has the guts to continue with brexit. So far he has been able to table thump and talk big before blaming the adults stopping him. If gets a majority he will then have to take responsibility. We shall see if he is quite so tough when he can't do the ol' hold me back routine. As for my mob. Deep down, a majority of people know we chat on about the real big issue. If Greens never achieve much power in this silly FPTP system but other parties adopt the policies then thats fine. I dont worry about a Green Party government. I want an OK planet.
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Post by nws on Nov 2, 2019 20:09:05 GMT
The polls have them running at 5%. The Tories currently have a 12 point lead over Labour, but still only 36% in favour of them. They could easily win a majority in parliament yet with less than a third of the electorate voting for them. Something not right if that does happen - for any party. Au contraire. If we change to Proportional Representation, the results will indeed be fairer, but we won't be able to govern, because every Parliament will be hung, and there will be elections every six months, as in Italy in recent years, in the hope that finally one party will be returned with a workable majority; except it rarely happens. Our system may be unfair, but it works - usually. Is Italy the only country with PR or are you taking one country where things havent gone so well to make a general point? Finland and Sweden operate on PR. Our system works so well...as our current position shows. 2015, 2017, 2019...despite a fixed term parliament act. Going great.
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Post by Better things to do in life on Nov 2, 2019 21:05:51 GMT
Au contraire. If we change to Proportional Representation, the results will indeed be fairer, but we won't be able to govern, because every Parliament will be hung, and there will be elections every six months, as in Italy in recent years, in the hope that finally one party will be returned with a workable majority; except it rarely happens. Our system may be unfair, but it works - usually. Is Italy the only country with PR or are you taking one country where things havent gone so well to make a general point? Finland and Sweden operate on PR. Our system works so well...as our current position shows. 2015, 2017, 2019...despite a fixed term parliament act. Going great. If elected MPs don’t listen to the people’s views and the result of a referendum it’s irrelevant what voting system you use to elect them. As Sword would say oh-oh look out for incoming!
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Post by Nick on Nov 2, 2019 21:44:49 GMT
You are right of course oldboy we have a totally fair representative democracy which is the envy of both Syria and North Korea. After all it's not like our political leaders stich up elections to serve their party interests and not the people. How about David Cameron winning an overall majority in 2015, getting all of 37% of the vote. Will of the people ? Absolutely.
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Post by 61666 on Nov 2, 2019 22:15:52 GMT
If we had PR, then like as not Farage and some of his cronies would be in parliament by now, but they would only amount to a few percent, whereas there'd be 20% Libdems and a fair few Greens too - both of which would moderate the looney left and right. You'd hope... Another recent poll showed that less than 20% think the government is doing a good job, yet twice that number want Buck Foris - even though he is the government, along with Cove the Gunt, IDS, JRM, PP and all the other liars as the next one. The above purely a personal view, but I really find it hard to understand why people can't see through the flannel and how they are being taken for a ride. For the record, despite voting Labour in the past, I am not keen on them either at the moment. In addition, my local MP, Tracey Crouch, is far from the worst, but a vote for her is a vote for BoJo (whom she has supported since he came to 'power'. In short, haven't a clue who to vote for, only know who I don't want!
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Post by nws on Nov 2, 2019 23:54:45 GMT
Is Italy the only country with PR or are you taking one country where things havent gone so well to make a general point? Finland and Sweden operate on PR. Our system works so well...as our current position shows. 2015, 2017, 2019...despite a fixed term parliament act. Going great. If elected MPs don’t listen to the people’s views and the result of a referendum it’s irrelevant what voting system you use to elect them. As Sword would say oh-oh look out for incoming! The majority of people that voted in 2015 voted for parties that were not pushing for a referendum. So now we have agreed that having the referendum was anti-democratic. Do you agree with having this election? It is very disespectful of the will of the people from 2017. What happens if there is no Conservative majority. Will we keep voting until rich tax dodgers get what they want? Best of five?
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Post by nws on Nov 5, 2019 23:44:01 GMT
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Post by 61666 on Nov 6, 2019 8:37:11 GMT
So completely out of touch with the real world. Shades of "Let them eat cake", though brioche is a better translation. Either way, we know what happened to her! Many of the parties not exactly covering themselves in glory at the moment. On top of JRM's gaff, we have Cove the Gunt actively trying to hide Russian interference, various individual scandals and all manner of current MPs choosing not to stand this time. Corbyn's "Let's drag Brexit out for a further six months may be eminently sensible, provided it shortens the trade negotiations that have to follow - though doubt many floating voters will see it that way. Will the LibDems really hoover up all the remain voters to keep us in the EU and form the next government? Then there is Farage (rhymes with garage), bottling out of standing himself. Probably realised is is unelectable, but will tour the country promoting his own brand of looney right politics for the 500+ Brexit party candidates instead. Nevermind they all collectively a bunch of complete f*ckwits, Donald Trump is Nigel's friend, so that makes it alright. Currently the bookies have the Tories and another hung parliament level pegging. Time to stick your head between your legs and kiss your arse goodbye'? Not yet, but five weeks of posturing from all sides is not going to be fun. Suggest everyone keeps an eye on the BBC's 'Reality Check', which tests the truth behind some of the more spurious claims from all parties. Surprisingly (?), very few are true...
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Post by toonarmy on Nov 6, 2019 18:09:05 GMT
I think if you listen to the interview he clearly states that he would have ignored the fire brigade and left, he didn’t say anything about those that remained in the building or questioned why they remained, but I suppose it’s easy to hear what you want to hear
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Post by daveu on Nov 6, 2019 19:08:55 GMT
The polls have them running at 5%. The Tories currently have a 12 point lead over Labour, but still only 36% in favour of them. They could easily win a majority in parliament yet with less than a third of the electorate voting for them. Something not right if that does happen - for any party. Au contraire. If we change to Proportional Representation, the results will indeed be fairer, but we won't be able to govern, because every Parliament will be hung, and there will be elections every six months, as in Italy in recent years, in the hope that finally one party will be returned with a workable majority; except it rarely happens. Our system may be unfair, but it works - usually. This used to be my view, but the Tory/LibDem coalition, while not perfect, was one of the better governments in our recent history. The only problem is that coalitions tend to be political suicide for the junior partner.
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Post by 61666 on Nov 6, 2019 21:08:21 GMT
Indeed. And no telling what Cameron would have got up, given a free rein. Erm, hang on minute, that is where this thread started...
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Post by malibustacey on Nov 7, 2019 10:05:43 GMT
I think if you listen to the interview he clearly states that he would have ignored the fire brigade and left, he didn’t say anything about those that remained in the building or questioned why they remained, but I suppose it’s easy to hear what you want to hear Ignoring emergency service advice was, quote ‘the common sense thing to do’ - anyone who kept to the advice therefore didn’t have common sense.
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Post by Better things to do in life on Nov 7, 2019 11:24:57 GMT
You are right of course oldboy we have a totally fair representative democracy which is the envy of both Syria and North Korea. After all it's not like our political leaders stich up elections to serve their party interests and not the people. How about David Cameron winning an overall majority in 2015, getting all of 37% of the vote. Will of the people ? Absolutely. Nick we will never have a government with the support of the majority of the people. Sorry to burst your bubble but that’s real life. Real life is that 37% isn’t bad when so many people don’t even vote. That’s why we should honor the referendum result. How referendum deniers can be football fans beats me. How are you going to handle your team dominating for 93 minutes but losing to a 95th minute penalty that shouldn’t have been given? 37% voted leave - deal or no deal. That’s far clearer and straightforward. Shame our parliament doesn’t want to admit it. Where’s an Oliver Cromwell when we need one? More incoming..........
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Post by davec on Nov 7, 2019 11:40:47 GMT
Oliver Cromwell would ban football and make everybody pray all day
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Post by sword65 on Nov 7, 2019 12:01:23 GMT
Oliver Cromwell would ban football and make everybody pray all day Yeah but look at the money we would save with no Christmas to worry about.
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