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Post by Better things to do in life on Oct 24, 2019 11:44:36 GMT
I’d stop my ‘abuse’ (I’d call it mistrust) if he stopped lying. And Corbyn doesn't? His whole persona is false given his real left wing and other beliefs that he doesn't talk about anymore in public. Or any of them? We all lie, its sadly part of humanity. Especially in Politics. What about Clintons "I did not have sexual relations with that woman". If you base your mistrust on lies, there isn't a single MP in Parliament you can trust. That certainly seems to be the conclusion of this sorry mess that is Brexit.
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Post by malibustacey on Oct 24, 2019 12:23:31 GMT
Ah, classic whataboutism.
I didn’t say there wasn’t mistrust on anyone else. I think Corbyn is a) useless and b) too far left. I referred to BJ because a) he’s in charge and b) was the subject of discussion.
I’m very happy with my MP. She has been consistent with voting and has followed what was on her literature in the 2017 general election - I trust her.
Re Clinton: That’s not ideal but that was a single self protecting lie. BJ was sacked for lying. There is a page on the Labour website (so take it with a pinch of salt, obviously) who suggest the count of lies for BJ is at 80 since campaigning for leadership started, I doubt he’s been ‘mistaken’ that many times.
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Post by 61666 on Oct 24, 2019 13:11:05 GMT
Certainly don't feel sorry for Boris. It's his agenda, so he gets what he deserves, good or ill and with so many lies to his name, is it any wonder that so many neither trust or like him.
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Post by shamstone on Oct 24, 2019 14:13:32 GMT
That’s why their po’lie’ticians
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Post by nws on Oct 25, 2019 7:13:47 GMT
If everything everyone says about Boris on this thread is true, he is the most astute amazing skilful, influential and tactically and strategically brilliant PM we have ever had to be so clever as to engineer every single up and down of this Brexit saga for his own personal political and financial gain. For goodness sake give it a rest. If he came up with a cure for Cancer you lot would find a way of construing that he only did it for personal riches. You don't like the guy - we all get it - now PLEASE change the record. I will be happy for you to show me something I have said about Alex that is untrue. For the record I have predicted what will happen since he became PM. My only failing has been to cast the EU as villain when it seems to be Parliament and the Judiciary (they're the ones Alex and co were campaigning to get running the country in 2016 - how funny). I'm still waiting for your counter 'facts' re brexit and your list of successes while Alex was Mayor of London. It's almost like you promise loads of things which turn out to be untrue. I've seen this somewhere before...
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Post by nws on Oct 25, 2019 7:23:43 GMT
I’d stop my ‘abuse’ (I’d call it mistrust) if he stopped lying. And Corbyn doesn't? His whole persona is false given his real left wing and other beliefs that he doesn't talk about anymore in public. Or any of them? We all lie, its sadly part of humanity. Especially in Politics. What about Clintons "I did not have sexual relations with that woman". If you base your mistrust on lies, there isn't a single MP in Parliament you can trust. That certainly seems to be the conclusion of this sorry mess that is Brexit. Please tell me when either Clinton or Corbyn has been PM of the UK. Your post is classic whataboutery and it is sad that you are prepared to accept serial lies to get something you don't understand at whatever cost to the people of this country. Even Alex's government understands the cost. That is why they lie about or hide Yellowhammer. While I like many of Corbyn's policies I do not like the anti-Jewish aura surrounding him. However, in true spirit of offering a chance, please tell us what he has lied about.
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Post by hongkongstone on Oct 25, 2019 9:43:21 GMT
You continue to worship him if you must, but don't try to shut down opinions you disagree with...oh I forgot you're a brexiteer, it's what you do. Not shutting down opinions, Dave, nor do I worship any man, just actually feel sorry for Boris for the amount of rubbish he has to put up with when he is just trying to do a job. As for him always doing things for himself, who would willingly take such a tortuous and painful route to do that as to be PM right now? Sorry, your argument doesnt stack up. As for him not wanting to read a 400 page brief beyond the first paragraph and doing his own thing at an event, he is no different to any Senior Executive or Government Minister I have worked with over 35 years doing business in those circles. They just don't have time to read such missives,including my own Senior Management But, of course, because its Boris, you want to heap a characteristic common to all Senior people as unique to him in a megacritical manner. That's not an opinion its a targeted attack and is also born out of some ignorance about how Senior People actually work. Its becoming quite nasty. I could launch similar character assassinations of Bercow, Corbyn and many others, but its just not necessary or productive. By all means have views on leave/Remain, but the constant vile personal abuse of the people involved is really not necessary, and they are all as bad as each other in what you are accusing one of over another - they are all politicians, they all work exactly the same. e.g Bercow seems to be on his own agenda, but is in a role where he is not supposed to have one! I will agree that most senior execs learn to skim read long briefs and pick out key points but what they don't do is afterwards directly offering me intellectual property that he has no right to as actually happened in this case. de Pfeffel is a chancer who makes it up as he goes along to suit his own agenda. He only supported Brexit because if Cameron had won the vote (don't get me going on that one) then Gideon 'George' Osborne was his annointed successor.
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Post by 61666 on Oct 25, 2019 12:10:20 GMT
And he continues to make promises he can't keep - a polite way of saying he continues to lie. While he is happy to blame everyone else for the politic impasse we are in, the plain fact is that the opposition parties neither trust nor believe him. Suspect that if he had been more open and honest, he would have got his Brexit wish by now, but he only has himself and his cronies to blame for the that.
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Post by nws on Oct 26, 2019 7:17:13 GMT
Not shutting down opinions, Dave, nor do I worship any man, just actually feel sorry for Boris for the amount of rubbish he has to put up with when he is just trying to do a job. As for him always doing things for himself, who would willingly take such a tortuous and painful route to do that as to be PM right now? Sorry, your argument doesnt stack up. As for him not wanting to read a 400 page brief beyond the first paragraph and doing his own thing at an event, he is no different to any Senior Executive or Government Minister I have worked with over 35 years doing business in those circles. They just don't have time to read such missives,including my own Senior Management But, of course, because its Boris, you want to heap a characteristic common to all Senior people as unique to him in a megacritical manner. That's not an opinion its a targeted attack and is also born out of some ignorance about how Senior People actually work. Its becoming quite nasty. I could launch similar character assassinations of Bercow, Corbyn and many others, but its just not necessary or productive. By all means have views on leave/Remain, but the constant vile personal abuse of the people involved is really not necessary, and they are all as bad as each other in what you are accusing one of over another - they are all politicians, they all work exactly the same. e.g Bercow seems to be on his own agenda, but is in a role where he is not supposed to have one! I will agree that most senior execs learn to skim read long briefs and pick out key points but what they don't do is afterwards directly offering me intellectual property that he has no right to as actually happened in this case. de Pfeffel is a chancer who makes it up as he goes along to suit his own agenda. He only supported Brexit because if Cameron had won the vote (don't get me going on that one) then Gideon 'George' Osborne was his annointed successor. Have you noticed Oldboy's modus operandi? "I could do something but I won't". He won't because he either can't or because he knows his lists will be much shorter. I, for one, would love to hear all about the lies of Corbyn, Bercow etc. Strangely, he thinks pointing out the continual lies of a PM is nasty but seems to accept that being lied to is ok because that is part of the PM's role...#weknewwhatwewerevotingfor
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Post by Nick on Oct 26, 2019 10:50:44 GMT
With all this self-inflicted turmoil dominating the news agenda, it becomes all to easy to lose track of how comprehensively the promises made during the election campaign have fallen apart.
Whether it is Boris Johnson's airy visions of 'sunlit uplands' where we can 'have our cake and eat it'.
David Davis's insistence that 'there is no downside to Brexit'.
Michael Gove's claim that 'the day after we vote to leave we hold all the cards and we can choose the path we want'.
It is hard to see how they could have been proven to be more wrong.
But no matter.
The divisions inflicted upon us by the Leave campaign have become so entrenched that many people are likely to remain loyal to the men who have so egregiously misled them.
Diehards Brexiteers like oldboy and sword continue to articulate that any criticism of Brexit promises as being some kind of denigration of the people who fell for them.
Can't help but feel that things are going to get worse before they get better.
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Post by nws on Nov 1, 2019 23:59:46 GMT
I'm sad we are out today. Oh we're not. He lied again
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Post by shamstone on Nov 2, 2019 6:44:58 GMT
How will the Greens get on in this Election do you think ?
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Post by 61666 on Nov 2, 2019 8:51:31 GMT
The polls have them running at 5%. The Tories currently have a 12 point lead over Labour, but still only 36% in favour of them. They could easily win a majority in parliament yet with less than a third of the electorate voting for them. Something not right if that does happen - for any party.
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Post by jdl on Nov 2, 2019 9:05:24 GMT
The polls have them running at 5%. The Tories currently have a 12 point lead over Labour, but still only 36% in favour of them. They could easily win a majority in parliament yet with less than a third of the electorate voting for them. Something not right if that does happen - for any party. That's our wonderful system. Labour lost the election in 1950, despite getting more votes than the Tories. And, come to that, Trump lost the election in the US (Clinton won the popular vote), so it's not just us. I have campaigned all my adult life for a fairer voting system (my vote only ever counts in EU elections!), but, after the complete f**k up of Brexit, I'm no longer so sure. Do we really want to ask 'the people'? As for Johnson's lead - I may be wrong, but I think May had a bigger lead when she called her snap election in 2017. And that went well.
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Post by headstone on Nov 2, 2019 12:00:44 GMT
The polls have them running at 5%. The Tories currently have a 12 point lead over Labour, but still only 36% in favour of them. They could easily win a majority in parliament yet with less than a third of the electorate voting for them. Something not right if that does happen - for any party. Au contraire. If we change to Proportional Representation, the results will indeed be fairer, but we won't be able to govern, because every Parliament will be hung, and there will be elections every six months, as in Italy in recent years, in the hope that finally one party will be returned with a workable majority; except it rarely happens. Our system may be unfair, but it works - usually.
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