|
|
Post by 61666 on Jan 28, 2018 17:45:01 GMT
The point has been raised a number of times, that ours is not enough and as a result, we are forced to taken on short term loans of the likes of Hines and Pigott. Indeed, would Loza and Finney has stayed all season had they not been injured?
So, where do we sit in terms of playing budgets, compared to the test of the league?
Presume that big/well supported clubs like Tranmere and Wrexham can splash the cash, while sugar daddy clubs like £bbsfleet, £astleigh and so on are similarly well off.However, what about the likes of Bromley and Dover and are there any clubs operating on our level of finance who are doing better than us, that maybe we can learn from?
|
|
|
|
Post by Raymondo316 on Jan 28, 2018 18:07:39 GMT
It was mentioned at the meeting that ours is about half of Ebbsfleets rumoured 1.2 million budget.
Chester announced that theirs is 450k.
I've seen Dagenham fans on another forum mention their budget this season is about a million.
|
|
|
|
Post by stonelacro on Jan 28, 2018 18:20:49 GMT
If we can't afford it, we shouldn't be in it! Simples, no good moaning at Club's that can!
|
|
|
|
Post by 61666 on Jan 28, 2018 18:35:41 GMT
Not moaning, just want to know how we stand. Are we doing better than some clubs on bigger budgets and, more to the point, worse than anyone on less?
|
|
|
|
Post by mikeking on Jan 28, 2018 18:46:58 GMT
If we can't afford it, we shouldn't be in it! Simples, no good moaning at Club's that can! Being in the National league this soon was never envisaged in the clubs plans, so we are punching above our weight, the problem is that when promotion comes you have to take it, as it maybe a while before it happens again. The problem is that some supporters thrive on this success and expect it every season, The club have made it clear that we will never get in the situation we were in before, and all credit to them they have supported the playing side whilst still developing the ground. However it appears in some quarters this is not enough, Chester and Hartlepool have found this, and could pay the ultimate price of years in the wilderness or no club at all. Be careful what we wish for. |
|
|
|
Post by mrplow on Jan 28, 2018 20:12:50 GMT
Why are we talking about other clubs budgets here?
We have a bottom half budget and that’s exactly where we are this season and where we was last season.
Everyone moans about “oh this club can pay this amount to a player” but actually against some of the teams with the supposed big budgets we have given them the games everytime with little in between them apart from silly mistakes.
It’s pretty obvious we can’t compete for top honors if this keeps happening and all the time we are run behind the scenes like a Ryman team.
|
|
|
|
Post by Nick on Jan 28, 2018 20:15:29 GMT
Are we really punching above our weight ?
Are our finances, players and support base more suited to the National South ?
Are clubs like Sutton, Bromley and Maidenhead bigger and more ready for the National League than the Stones ?
I don't think so.
Punching above our weight implies that we can only expect some limited or temporary success in attempting to compete with clubs who are essentially stronger than ourselves.
To my mind the National League is a pretty broad church with plenty of clubs of all shapes and sizes, including those with an EFL background and others like Stones on the way up.
I think we are ready to go and consolidate our position in the league with the developing stadium, state of finances, business model, playing staff and support base well suited.
No reason to think of ourselves as one of the minnows or somehow inferior to bigger clubs
|
|
|
|
Post by jdl on Jan 28, 2018 21:26:28 GMT
If we can't afford it, we shouldn't be in it! Simples, no good moaning at Club's that can! Being in the National league this soon was never envisaged in the clubs plans, so we are punching above our weight, the problem is that when promotion comes you have to take it, as it maybe a while before it happens again. The problem is that some supporters thrive on this success and expect it every season, The club have made it clear that we will never get in the situation we were in before, and all credit to them they have supported the playing side whilst still developing the ground. However it appears in some quarters this is not enough, Chester and Hartlepool have found this, and could pay the ultimate price of years in the wilderness or no club at all. Be careful what we wish for. Whilst this is generally true, it is not the complete picture. For a start, infrastructure development and the playing budget come from different sources. Major ground improvements are funded almost entirely from 'investment', whereas players' wages, etc are paid from the income generated by the club (sponsorship, gate money, renting out the pitch, etc). There is some crossover, for instance minor improvements to the ground can be funded by income, but mostly the two are separate. The amount we spend on players is pretty much unrelated to the amount we spend on upgrading the stadium. So, the question of preparing for promotion (new stands, upgraded facilities, more seats, etc) is driven almost entirely by two factors: the likelihood of promotion, and the availability of substantial 'investment'. Whilst the playing budget is affected only by the availability of income. At the moment, we are running at a surplus of about £200k a year on average, so that money, or some of it, could be used to strengthen the squad - without in any way affecting the development of the stadium*. This would give us a playing budget more typical of most NL clubs and enable us to compete better, without having to constantly rely on short-term loans and luck (no players getting injured or booked). And I would argue that the experience of our first two seasons in the NL is that our playing budget is inadequate. Jay is having to spend far too much of his time fire fighting and making emergency loans to keep us in the NL, he doesn't have the time or resources to build a stable side that will allow us to compete comfortably in this league. And if we don't have a big enough budget, not only will we be fighting every season to stay up, but the constant poor runs of form will affect gates - and reduce the very income we need. (*This is not strictly true. For instance, O&T might decide, instead of relying on outside 'investment', to fund development, as least partly, by taking out loans/mortgages, and they will need the surplus to fund that. Personally, I don't think this is a wise route - you have only to look around you to see the number of clubs struggling with the amount of debt they have.) |
|
|
|
Post by jdl on Jan 28, 2018 21:48:12 GMT
Are we really punching above our weight ? Are our finances, players and support base more suited to the National South ? Are clubs like Sutton, Bromley and Maidenhead bigger and more ready for the National League than the Stones ? I don't think so. Punching above our weight implies that we can only expect some limited or temporary success in attempting to compete with clubs who are essentially stronger than ourselves. To my mind the National League is a pretty broad church with plenty of clubs of all shapes and sizes, including those with an EFL background and others like Stones on the way up. I think we are ready to go and consolidate our position in the league with the developing stadium, state of finances, business model, playing staff and support base well suited. No reason to think of ourselves as one of the minnows or somehow inferior to bigger clubs True that the NL is made of clubs of all different sizes and budgets, but, generally speaking, it is the bigger clubs (mostly ex-league with large gates) and those with decent funding behind them who go up - and, more importantly, who stay up. Clubs like Lincoln and Tranmere can not only make it back into the EFL relatively easily, but stand a much better chance of doing well once they get there. The sugar daddy clubs, however, can get up relatively easily, but can often struggle when they get there (last season's promoted clubs illustrate this very nicely). Some smaller/less well funded clubs do make it, but many (most) of them struggle to stay up or become yo-yo clubs. I haven't checked, but I'm pretty sure you'll find that the ex-non-league clubs that have done well in the EFL were promoted in the old Conference days, when both L2/D4 and our league were much easier places - they had time to settle in and grow after promotion, teams don't get that luxury these days. And, at the other end, it tends to be the same few clubs struggling to stay up each year - usually a mixture of clubs who really don't have the resources to stay in the NL, and the odd ex-EFL club crashing and burning. As for 'punching above our weight', I think we are 'punching' at exactly our weight. Until we have a bigger playing budget, we will find ourselves having pretty much the same season as this and last year's every season - with maybe the odd season toying with the play-offs, but mostly concentrating on not going down. This will do nothing to improve our gates, and will wear out poor old Jay - instead of growing into the EFL-standard manager I'm sure he can be, he'll be exhausting himself every year trying to patch the team up to avoid relegation. |
|
|
|
Post by exiled on Jan 28, 2018 22:11:13 GMT
So would people be prepared to pay more to supplement the playing budget a lot of rivals charge more Dover £17 Woking £ 18 for example think the club could then make season tickets more attractive then the paltry discount currently on offer
|
|
|
|
Post by nws on Jan 29, 2018 13:04:42 GMT
So would people be prepared to pay more to supplement the playing budget a lot of rivals charge more Dover £17 Woking £ 18 for example think the club could then make season tickets more attractive then the paltry discount currently on offer Please don't read this as warmongering towards you, exiled, because it isn't but I wonder how many season ticket holders see the discount as paltry because each season I seem to read an awful lot of people making comments about buying a season ticket because they want to give the club money rather than the wish to get a discount. Personally, I have always found this slightly mad because gifting the money would be better than a season ticket because the money would not be taxed. To that end would a playing budget fund through donation be better? |
|
|
|
Post by exiled on Jan 29, 2018 19:47:47 GMT
So would people be prepared to pay more to supplement the playing budget a lot of rivals charge more Dover £17 Woking £ 18 for example think the club could then make season tickets more attractive then the paltry discount currently on offer Please don't read this as warmongering towards you, exiled, because it isn't but I wonder how many season ticket holders see the discount as paltry because each season I seem to read an awful lot of people making comments about buying a season ticket because they want to give the club money rather than the wish to get a discount. Personally, I have always found this slightly mad because gifting the money would be better than a season ticket because the money would not be taxed. To that end would a playing budget fund through donation be better? Possibly however that would be difficult to set a budget because you would not much you are getting in. My point was by making season tickets more attractive against higher prices at the gate the club would get more up front and be able to proceed with a higher budget and if the club does well casual fans would still attend watching a competitive team |
|
|
|
Post by nws on Jan 29, 2018 20:50:34 GMT
Please don't read this as warmongering towards you, exiled, because it isn't but I wonder how many season ticket holders see the discount as paltry because each season I seem to read an awful lot of people making comments about buying a season ticket because they want to give the club money rather than the wish to get a discount. Personally, I have always found this slightly mad because gifting the money would be better than a season ticket because the money would not be taxed. To that end would a playing budget fund through donation be better? Possibly however that would be difficult to set a budget because you would not much you are getting in. My point was by making season tickets more attractive against higher prices at the gate the club would get more up front and be able to proceed with a higher budget and if the club does well casual fans would still attend watching a competitive team That does seem a very good point. Maybe we need a budget based on the previous year's income. Not sure that would work though |
|
|
|
Post by moley on Jan 29, 2018 21:05:14 GMT
Cutting our cloth according to what we have is fine with me, I've seen this club go under once and nearly fail a second time so the situation currently is fine with me.
It does mean the manager has to work very hard to keep replacing the necessary quality, so short term loans, players trying to make a name for themselves and regaining fitness before moving back higher is the order of the day ladies and gentlemen.
I will be interested to see what players Jay can get in the next few weeks, because it is not easy.
|
|
|
|
Post by nws on Jan 29, 2018 21:12:32 GMT
Cutting our cloth according to what we have is fine with me, I've seen this club go under once and nearly fail a second time so the situation currently is fine with me. It does mean the manager has to work very hard to keep replacing the necessary quality, so short term loans, players trying to make a name for themselves and regaining fitness before moving back higher is the order of the day ladies and gentlemen. I will be interested to see what players Jay can get in the next few weeks, because it is not easy. I'm with you, Moley. It's easy to sit there demanding this, that and the other when your answer to disaster is desertion. I know Toon mickey takes it but the reality is that those of us that actually suffered it know the other side of the coin and it really is nice just to be back in Maidstone, playing at our own ground. So nice I plan to make a rare foray there this Saturday. |
|
