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Post by philosopherstone on Nov 12, 2017 10:13:52 GMT
Given the current rules regarding doing too well with 3G pitches resulting in the punishment of relegation, does anyone else think that we should start throwing matches towards the end of the season if we are still up near the top to avoid being relegated?
I don't mean anything officially spoken of or orchestrated of course, that would have the danger of coming out and resulting in a worse punishment.
But maybe a few of the players would have the common sense to miss a few tackles, be second to the ball, forget to mark someone, be a bit slow blocking that shot, accidentally put through their own net once or twice, or blaze that shot at an open goal high over the bar. There would plenty of opportunities to manipulate league results in our opponents favour to lower our league position before it was too late to avoid the worse fate of being relegated for the crime of doing too well whilst having a 3G pitch (I don't say doing to well ON a 3G pitch, because we seem to play better away from it at the moment).
I'd rather that we were cleverly fraudulent, than virtuously stupid in 'doing the right thing' and getting relegated for our honesty.
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Post by soulstone on Nov 12, 2017 10:23:54 GMT
Given the current rules regarding doing too well with 3G pitches resulting in the punishment of relegation, does anyone else think that we should start throwing matches towards the end of the season if we are still up near the top to avoid being relegated? I don't mean anything officially spoken of or orchestrated of course, that would have the danger of coming out and resulting in a worse punishment. But maybe a few of the players would have the common sense to miss a few tackles, be second to the ball, forget to mark someone, be a bit slow blocking that shot, accidentally put through their own net once or twice, or blaze that shot at an open goal high over the bar. There would plenty of opportunities to manipulate league results in our opponents favour to lower our league position before it was too late to avoid the worse fate of being relegated for the crime of doing too well whilst having a 3G pitch (I don't say doing to well ON a 3G pitch, because we seem to play better away from it at the moment). I'd rather that we were cleverly fraudulent, than virtuously stupid in 'doing the right thing' and getting relegated for our honesty. Surely we wont need to throw matches if the ground is not up to the required capacity or at least planning permission is not in place.
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Post by philosopherstone on Nov 12, 2017 10:36:37 GMT
Given the current rules regarding doing too well with 3G pitches resulting in the punishment of relegation, does anyone else think that we should start throwing matches towards the end of the season if we are still up near the top to avoid being relegated? I don't mean anything officially spoken of or orchestrated of course, that would have the danger of coming out and resulting in a worse punishment. But maybe a few of the players would have the common sense to miss a few tackles, be second to the ball, forget to mark someone, be a bit slow blocking that shot, accidentally put through their own net once or twice, or blaze that shot at an open goal high over the bar. There would plenty of opportunities to manipulate league results in our opponents favour to lower our league position before it was too late to avoid the worse fate of being relegated for the crime of doing too well whilst having a 3G pitch (I don't say doing to well ON a 3G pitch, because we seem to play better away from it at the moment). I'd rather that we were cleverly fraudulent, than virtuously stupid in 'doing the right thing' and getting relegated for our honesty. Surely we wont need to throw matches if the ground is not up to the required capacity or at least planning permission is not in place. I don't see how that would work. Failing the ground requirements needed for promotion would just mean we couldn't get promoted and they already plan to deny us that for our 3G pitch. If that was all the 3G pitches rule was about then we wouldn't need to do anything, but there is also a desire to punish with relegation, and ground requirements needed for promotion wouldn't factor into that. I'm not normally in favour of such dishonesty, but we need to look after ourselves if officialdom is going to be so draconian and unfair. We were screwed over due to the old re-election rules when we won the Conference in 1983-84, now they want to screw us over a second time by denying us promotion (something we can't do anything about unless we win a legal battle - by no means certain) and then a third time with relegation (something we can manipulate the league to avoid). It would be grossly unfair to get pushed back down to the Conference South now, given all this club has been through over the years. So if we are to be potentially denied promotion again, as we were in 83-84, for political reasons, I at least want to see us remain in this division. I'm not getting any younger and I have already had to wait those 5 extra lost years to make it into the old Division Four, then all the wilderness years courtesy of Jim Thompson. I and many others probably feel we have suffered enough.
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Post by daveu on Nov 12, 2017 11:07:45 GMT
Given the current rules regarding doing too well with 3G pitches resulting in the punishment of relegation, does anyone else think that we should start throwing matches towards the end of the season if we are still up near the top to avoid being relegated? I don't mean anything officially spoken of or orchestrated of course, that would have the danger of coming out and resulting in a worse punishment. But maybe a few of the players would have the common sense to miss a few tackles, be second to the ball, forget to mark someone, be a bit slow blocking that shot, accidentally put through their own net once or twice, or blaze that shot at an open goal high over the bar. There would plenty of opportunities to manipulate league results in our opponents favour to lower our league position before it was too late to avoid the worse fate of being relegated for the crime of doing too well whilst having a 3G pitch (I don't say doing to well ON a 3G pitch, because we seem to play better away from it at the moment). I'd rather that we were cleverly fraudulent, than virtuously stupid in 'doing the right thing' and getting relegated for our honesty. Not required if the planning permission isn't in place for the ground expansion as we won't be eligible for the playoffs anyway. Anyway the idea of throwing matches is abhorrent. There's no way the club would countenance such disgusting behaviour. They will fight it in court if it happens.
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Post by goingup on Nov 12, 2017 11:12:01 GMT
I've just reread the rules - not only are we relegated if we don't lay a grass pitch, but we're also not allowed to be promoted to the National League again until we have a grass pitch in place. It would seem to me to be crazy for us to finish the season with promotion as the rules currently stand - its a no brainer that we must "fail". What's the situation with Bromley and Sutton? Are they as committed to 3G as us? Would they take grass back if promoted? I can ALMOST envisage a situation whereby 2 of the 3 teams are in a play off final and as soon as the game starts, switching around and attacking their own goals - the game might finish 31-31 (because no goalkeepers able to use their hands to keep the ball out) and go to penalties which will go on forever as the score remains at 0-0 as neither team are prepared to put the ball in the net! Remember, you heard it here first
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Post by philosopherstone on Nov 12, 2017 11:16:37 GMT
Given the current rules regarding doing too well with 3G pitches resulting in the punishment of relegation, does anyone else think that we should start throwing matches towards the end of the season if we are still up near the top to avoid being relegated? I don't mean anything officially spoken of or orchestrated of course, that would have the danger of coming out and resulting in a worse punishment. But maybe a few of the players would have the common sense to miss a few tackles, be second to the ball, forget to mark someone, be a bit slow blocking that shot, accidentally put through their own net once or twice, or blaze that shot at an open goal high over the bar. There would plenty of opportunities to manipulate league results in our opponents favour to lower our league position before it was too late to avoid the worse fate of being relegated for the crime of doing too well whilst having a 3G pitch (I don't say doing to well ON a 3G pitch, because we seem to play better away from it at the moment). I'd rather that we were cleverly fraudulent, than virtuously stupid in 'doing the right thing' and getting relegated for our honesty. Not required if the planning permission isn't in place for the ground expansion as we won't be eligible for the playoffs anyway. Anyway the idea of throwing matches is abhorrent. There's no way the club would countenance such disgusting behaviour. They will fight it in court if it happens. Well if that works, then fine, and I agree the club wouldn't countenance fraud. Which was why my suggestion was that players, without conferring, could perhaps underperform collectively. What's disgusting are the rules. I wouldn't feel it was 'disgusting behaviour' to try to get out of such an unfair relegation situation.
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Post by daveu on Nov 12, 2017 11:26:30 GMT
Not required if the planning permission isn't in place for the ground expansion as we won't be eligible for the playoffs anyway. Anyway the idea of throwing matches is abhorrent. There's no way the club would countenance such disgusting behaviour. They will fight it in court if it happens. Well if that works, then fine, and I agree the club wouldn't countenance fraud. Which was why my suggestion was that players, without conferring, could perhaps underperform collectively. What's disgusting are the rules. I wouldn't feel it was 'disgusting behaviour' to try to get out of such an unfair relegation situation. Can't agree with that at all, and I'm surprised any real supporter would even suggest it.
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Post by philosopherstone on Nov 12, 2017 11:37:16 GMT
Well if that works, then fine, and I agree the club wouldn't countenance fraud. Which was why my suggestion was that players, without conferring, could perhaps underperform collectively. What's disgusting are the rules. I wouldn't feel it was 'disgusting behaviour' to try to get out of such an unfair relegation situation. Can't agree with that at all, and I'm surprised any real supporter would even suggest it. I simply don't want to see us both denied promotion and unfairly relegated due to off the field politics, just as we were denied promotion in 83-84 and the chance of watching potentially 5 years worth of League Football (before we finally got there whilst Thompson was trashing our club). That is all. My lifespan is only so long. I can't fully enjoy our good form at the moment, because of the worry of this huge black cloud of off-field shenanigans hanging over us like a sword of Damocles.
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Post by goingup on Nov 12, 2017 11:44:47 GMT
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Post by farawaystone on Nov 12, 2017 17:04:49 GMT
Could we not just ground-share for a season until the rules change?
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Post by bendubz on Nov 12, 2017 17:30:38 GMT
Stupid idea. If we're being realistic, the FA will not want the controversy of a team being relegated for doing well. Even if they don't allow the plastic pitches I cannot see a situation where one of us, Bromley and Sutton make the playoffs AND they don't amend the rule to not include relegation.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2017 17:34:44 GMT
Terry said on Stones Live a couple of weeks back that the club will take legal action if we are in a position to go up at the end of the season. Clearly the club (and the 3G Alliance) feel we have a strong case against the league. The Sutton United chairman hinted very strongly a while back that the Alliance will work together legally should any one of the affected 3G clubs be in line for promotion come April.
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Post by moonboots on Nov 12, 2017 19:42:50 GMT
I don't understand how people keep blaming Jim Thompson for our problems in the past and think of the good he did. 1 He was responsible for the creation of National League {Albeit by another name} 2 He was also responsible for automatic promotion to the Football League. 3 Along with Burnley chairman Bob Lord he was the man behind the start of the FA Trophy. 4 If JT had not got involved with Stones the club would have folded at the end of the 1969/70 season. So I think we should be grateful for the good he did for us and non league football in general.
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Post by jdl on Nov 12, 2017 20:57:20 GMT
Given the current rules regarding doing too well with 3G pitches resulting in the punishment of relegation, does anyone else think that we should start throwing matches towards the end of the season if we are still up near the top to avoid being relegated? I don't mean anything officially spoken of or orchestrated of course, that would have the danger of coming out and resulting in a worse punishment. But maybe a few of the players would have the common sense to miss a few tackles, be second to the ball, forget to mark someone, be a bit slow blocking that shot, accidentally put through their own net once or twice, or blaze that shot at an open goal high over the bar. There would plenty of opportunities to manipulate league results in our opponents favour to lower our league position before it was too late to avoid the worse fate of being relegated for the crime of doing too well whilst having a 3G pitch (I don't say doing to well ON a 3G pitch, because we seem to play better away from it at the moment). I'd rather that we were cleverly fraudulent, than virtuously stupid in 'doing the right thing' and getting relegated for our honesty. Never going to happen.
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Post by jdl on Nov 12, 2017 20:57:47 GMT
Could we not just ground-share for a season until the rules change? Dartford, maybe?
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