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Post by daveu on Aug 9, 2017 13:45:10 GMT
(For the record, I don't regard a smoke bomb as a crime.) Really? So if a law exists making something a crime you don't regard it as a crime. I guess you wouldn't call the police if someone came round and burgled your house then.
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Post by senna34165 on Aug 9, 2017 14:08:29 GMT
If the reports I have heard of behaviour in and out of the ground and on public transport are true, then I should think the name of our club will be mud very soon. One would hope its not so much the name of our club, but the name of the fans softlad. Whih maybe why there is increase Police / Steward presence at games we attend - the cost of which at home is borne by the club.
I'd spent most of the game near where the smoke bomb(s) went off at Ebbsfleet, but had taken my lad to the loo at the end, so atched last five minutes near the exit; myself and my Daughter are Asmatic, had we not have moved to the end of the terrace, we would have been cought right in the thick of it.
So, whoever you are;
- thanks for giving MUFC supporters a poor reputation - thanks for exposing the club to potential fines / FA action - thanks for risking the health and well being of fellow fans, as, I am not the only asmatic who goes to games.
Perhaps whoever knows the culprit(s) can do the right thing before someone is taken really ill, and they find themselve(s) in front of a Judge.
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Post by senna34165 on Aug 9, 2017 14:10:42 GMT
The younger fans I speak to just seem to find it 'a bit of fun' and 'add to the atmosphere' They are not mindless hooligans and definitely don't mean anybody harm Jay Saunders warning note today cuts the right note He accepts they are genuine enough supporters ok and appreciates the great support But smoke bombs, like them or not, will get the club in trouble So please no more ! Nick, they may not be meaning harm, but there has been enough talk on here, and in the general press.
They know there not allowed at games, and if they had half a brain they'd realise there is a good reason for it, and join the dots up.
They need outing and warning, and if do it agian, banning.
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Post by La femme de Vic Jobson on Aug 9, 2017 14:24:58 GMT
(For the record, I don't regard a smoke bomb as a crime.) Really? So if a law exists making something a crime you don't regard it as a crime. I guess you wouldn't call the police if someone came round and burgled your house then. No. I regard letting off a fairly feeble smoke bomb as roughly equivalent to doing 31mph in a built-up area. It might not be legal, but I wouldn't ring the police about it.
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Post by daveu on Aug 9, 2017 14:32:30 GMT
Really? So if a law exists making something a crime you don't regard it as a crime. I guess you wouldn't call the police if someone came round and burgled your house then. No. I regard letting off a fairly feeble smoke bomb as roughly equivalent to doing 31mph in a built-up area. It might not be legal, but I wouldn't ring the police about it. So who decides which laws are OK to ignore. If 31 is OK what about 32 or 33...or 40. Where do you draw the line. The law is not just an advisory starting point. If flares and smoke bombs are illegal in football grounds then they are illegal, no argument. Not just a little bit illegal or a bit naughty, but actually a crime for which you can and should be sanctioned.
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Post by La femme de Vic Jobson on Aug 9, 2017 14:41:08 GMT
No. I regard letting off a fairly feeble smoke bomb as roughly equivalent to doing 31mph in a built-up area. It might not be legal, but I wouldn't ring the police about it. So who decides which laws are OK to ignore. If 31 is OK what about 32 or 33...or 40. Where do you draw the line. The law is not just an advisory starting point. If flares and smoke bombs are illegal in football grounds then they are illegal, no argument. Not just a little bit illegal or a bit naughty, but actually a crime for which you can and should be sanctioned. Hey, I've been on the course, I would never do over 30 in a built up area ...
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Post by jdl on Aug 9, 2017 14:49:11 GMT
Really? So if a law exists making something a crime you don't regard it as a crime. I guess you wouldn't call the police if someone came round and burgled your house then. No. I regard letting off a fairly feeble smoke bomb as roughly equivalent to doing 31mph in a built-up area. It might not be legal, but I wouldn't ring the police about it. Or just trying to have it both ways because you don't want to upset the yoof?
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Post by jt on Aug 9, 2017 14:52:34 GMT
So who decides which laws are OK to ignore. If 31 is OK what about 32 or 33...or 40. Where do you draw the line. The law is not just an advisory starting point. If flares and smoke bombs are illegal in football grounds then they are illegal, no argument. Not just a little bit illegal or a bit naughty, but actually a crime for which you can and should be sanctioned. Hey, I've been on the course, I would never do over 30 in a built up area ... I would and do. But that's the joys of having to at work especially with the sh*t traffic in London
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Post by La femme de Vic Jobson on Aug 9, 2017 15:37:27 GMT
No. I regard letting off a fairly feeble smoke bomb as roughly equivalent to doing 31mph in a built-up area. It might not be legal, but I wouldn't ring the police about it. Or just trying to have it both ways because you don't want to upset the yoof? Worrying about upsetting people keeps me up at night.
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Post by mikeking on Aug 9, 2017 16:00:46 GMT
Just trying to get my head round this and maybe put a balanced view on some of the comments posted on both sides.
Flags and banners are part of the game and have been for some years, the club is growing and more support comes with it, personally I think it adds to the atmosphere, remember York last year, when I saw their banners at the Gallagher made you feel we were heading back to the big time. What have I seen on the posts ? They are the wrong colour, they obstruct my view, well its a very big stand now, the flag with the St Georges Cross is Facist, really ? ISIS and Swastika flags are offensive, not that of my country.
Smoke bombs agree with all the comments, they have no place in football and should not be used. End of. Jay approached it in the right manner, politely but with the right degree of assertiveness, and if the culprits do not comply then they deserve to be punished. What I don't agree with is the offensive descriptions tarring all the young support with same brush. Mindless idiots, scrotes and many more. In my mind this is why you get responses like F##k off, if you treat them like idiots they will respond like idiots. Jay gave the warning in the correct manner. Not I am gonna grass on you. Perhaps being a 61 year old youngster helps. Remember these guys raised £800 to pay for those flags, and deserve some credit for doing this off their own backs and the club they support.
I remember going to Southport last year and the silence in the ground was deafening, and the amount teams who congratulated us on our vocal support, Tranmere springs to mind, yep they can get a bit over excited, but didn't we all at that age. Jay and the players love the support, away games must seem like home games for our lads. I for one don't want that to stop.
To me the maessage is clear. To the youth carry on supporting the team, wave your flags and banners, and sing your socks off. But NO more smoke bombs. For the flag haters, don't stand next to a person with a flag. Schimple my little meerkats
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Post by HempsteadGaz on Aug 9, 2017 16:04:11 GMT
It was pretty stupid, the smoke thrower only succeeded in choking himself and his cronies.
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Post by Nick on Aug 9, 2017 16:08:46 GMT
agree in the great scheme of criminality it is pretty much off the scale at the bottom end, albeit from lads who don't intend to cause any harm the 'offence' itself seems to come from the vicinity of a grouping of youngish fans (under 18) whatever, it is a source of embarrassment and worse to the club and has to stop now hopefully no more and we can draw a line under it
ps liked Mikekings post but not convinced about the St George's flag. Regretfully it has been highjacked by the facist/racist far right and those waving in football stadiums know what they are about
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Post by mikeking on Aug 9, 2017 16:19:26 GMT
agree in the great scheme of criminality it is pretty much off the scale at the bottom end, albeit from lads who don't intend to cause any harm the 'offence' itself seems to come from the vicinity of a grouping of youngish fans (under 18) whatever, it is a source of embarrassment and worse to the club and has to stop now hopefully no more and we can draw a line under it ps liked MikeKings post but not convinced about the St George's flag. Regretfully it has been highjacked by the facist/racist far right and those waving in football stadiums know what they are about I know what you are saying, but can you imagine Trumps reaction if he could not wave his star spangled banner. I think we go to far over the top in this country to please everyone and end up insulting the majority
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Post by softlad on Aug 9, 2017 16:48:19 GMT
agree in the great scheme of criminality it is pretty much off the scale at the bottom end, albeit from lads who don't intend to cause any harm the 'offence' itself seems to come from the vicinity of a grouping of youngish fans (under 18) whatever, it is a source of embarrassment and worse to the club and has to stop now hopefully no more and we can draw a line under it ps liked MikeKings post but not convinced about the St George's flag. Regretfully it has been highjacked by the facist/racist far right and those waving in football stadiums know what they are about I know what you are saying, but can you imagine Trumps reaction if he could not wave his star spangled banner. I think we go to far over the top in this country to please everyone and end up insulting the majority I don't think anyone objects to the English flag. The objection is to the EDL flags and the orange order loyalist paramilitary style ones which have no place in football. I think the normal flags are fantastic but don't want to see provocative political ones. On a slight related note, the Royal British legion forbid anyone to reproduce the image of the poppy which bizarrely seems to be cropping up on flags and stickers. They want to prevent it being politicised or used for any other reason than remembrance which is a short period in November.
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Post by senna34165 on Aug 9, 2017 17:26:16 GMT
Just trying to get my head round this and maybe put a balanced view on some of the comments posted on both sides. Flags and banners are part of the game and have been for some years, the club is growing and more support comes with it, personally I think it adds to the atmosphere, remember York last year, when I saw their banners at the Gallagher made you feel we were heading back to the big time. What have I seen on the posts ? They are the wrong colour, they obstruct my view, well its a very big stand now, the flag with the St Georges Cross is Facist, really ? ISIS and Swastika flags are offensive, not that of my country. Smoke bombs agree with all the comments, they have no place in football and should not be used. End of. Jay approached it in the right manner, politely but with the right degree of assertiveness, and if the culprits do not comply then they deserve to be punished. What I don't agree with is the offensive descriptions tarring all the young support with same brush. Mindless idiots, scrotes and many more. In my mind this is why you get responses like F##k off, if you treat them like idiots they will respond like idiots. Jay gave the warning in the correct manner. Not I am gonna grass on you. Perhaps being a 61 year old youngster helps. Remember these guys raised £800 to pay for those flags, and deserve some credit for doing this off their own backs and the club they support. I remember going to Southport last year and the silence in the ground was deafening, and the amount teams who congratulated us on our vocal support, Tranmere springs to mind, yep they can get a bit over excited, but didn't we all at that age. Jay and the players love the support, away games must seem like home games for our lads. I for one don't want that to stop. To me the maessage is clear. To the youth carry on supporting the team, wave your flags and banners, and sing your socks off. But NO more smoke bombs. For the flag haters, don't stand next to a person with a flag. Schimple my little meerkats I beleive most pposters don't know who let off the smoke bomb, I certainly don't, in which case the message however strong applies whether the culrpit(s) are 19, or 99.
You have alluded to it being the lads that brought the flag? If correct, the club know where to look.
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