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Post by ontheup on Mar 11, 2014 19:03:44 GMT
Calais, I have to say I am enjoying my education.
So, the conference can't legally make a decision without putting it to a vote with their member clubs? Although they can of course propose a motion?
With regard to the Ryman League accepting 3G, did they propose the motion to their members?
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Post by daveu on Mar 11, 2014 19:26:11 GMT
Actually there's nothing in the conference rules that says the have to put it to their members vote. It simply states that they need the approval if the board.
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Post by ontheup on Mar 11, 2014 23:25:16 GMT
Hello OTU and Daveu - just for clarity, the requirement for a vote is the current stated policy of the FA (like all policy and rulebooks, it's a pretty dry read on their website) i.e. they will only approve the adoption of 3G above Step 7 of the Football Pyramid (their expression) where there has been a majority vote in favour.This also means that there was no requirement for the Ryman League (Step 7) to seek further approval - they were free to go ahead.So, as it stands, the Conference Board would have to have the backing of a vote to get FA approval - although I'm sure they would seek that anyway, rather than trying to force something that the majority are against.The Conference Board (as I said, if only to safeguard their credibility) are only likely to go to a vote when they feel assured of victory.
Of course, the key words there are 'as it stands'.We know that the FA are going to approve 3G at all levels in their competitions - the change we actually need is for them to raise the 'no vote' requirement to Step 6 (Conference North / South) of the Football Pyramid, which would allow the Conference Board to force the issue, if they so wished. Do you mean they would seek approval from the FA without going to another vote? Or encourage their members to vote in favour and then go to the FA? What I mean is, despite the FAs recent announcements regarding acceptance of 3G in its flagship cup competition, it is conceivable that conference clubs will continue to vote against 3G for all sorts of reasons other than the actual playing surface? Despite the use of the word "blackmail" I can't help feeling the conference board has been put in a very sticky situation by it's very own members, and now the FA are giving them a steering on 3G in order to try and avoid a court battle ( whereby the make up of English football will be put very much under the spotlight across Europe) what is the next step for the conference? |
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Post by toonarmy on Mar 12, 2014 10:53:23 GMT
I believe rightly or wrongly that the conference felt they were being pushed into a corner by the issue of 3G so decided to scupper this by putting the vote to the member clubs, knowing full well what the result would be, now the FA have came out and ratified the use of 3G in the FA cup, this gives the conference board some wriggle room, they can now also ratify it's use as the FA have sanctioned it, I do however believe it will be at the end of the season
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Post by ontheup on Mar 12, 2014 11:19:52 GMT
The silence from the conference is very telling, but as I've said on previous threads, I think as a club we have played our "cards" very well under the circumstances, and i can't help feeling the talk of legal threats and blackmail have forced the FA to push for approval. And to be fair, isn't that want we and the conference have wanted all along?
I got hounded off the Dover forum (and many other forums) for suggesting this whole debate was like 2 children squabbling over something in the playground, and in the end the teacher would have to intervene to stop the squabble turning into a full blown fight.
The teacher has intervened, we have backed off.......there is only one piece missing from the jigsaw.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2014 8:37:06 GMT
Here's hoping that one of Harlow / Merthyr / Sutton Coldfield / Stones actually put this into practice by getting through to the first round proper and drawing a league club at home. Preferably on a day when other games are getting called off for bad weather!
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Post by steveh21 on Mar 13, 2014 9:21:09 GMT
Let's not forget that many Conference clubs - including those who voted against it - already agree to play on 3G by entering the qualifying rounds of the FA Cup and playing in the FA Trophy. Just shows how many holes there are in The Conference Board and the Conference Clubs' argument.
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Post by ontheup on Mar 13, 2014 9:41:33 GMT
Let's not forget that many Conference clubs - including those who voted against it - already agree to play on 3G by entering the qualifying rounds of the FA Cup and playing in the FA Trophy. Just shows how many holes there are in The Conference Board and the Conference Clubs' argument. Oliver (well 3G4US) has just posted the following: www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2014-03/aaoo-sfn031014.phpAnd this is testing on top Italian Football, I posted the Barcelona 7 year olds from the BBC yesterday.......Italy and Spain, I'd like to see what odds you can get on these 2 countries this summer compared to England. I appreciate training and matches are different but I honestly don't get this, almost "mental" barrier 3G pitches seem to provide......so, players train on them all week, from all ages, for a lot more than 90 mins, without the weather interferring......then when it comes to matchday...."oh hell, what's that?...we can't play on that, it's too fast, I'll get injured,".....it's laughable..... |
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Post by ontheup on Mar 13, 2014 13:02:50 GMT
News on the Calor League website that Frome Town of the Premier Division are planning a 3G pitch. They're currently in the lower half of the division, so there seems no question of them winning promotion this season:
'The Club has made a landmark decision to look into the introduction of a 3G surface at the AlderSmith Stadium to replace the current natural grass pitch. This marks a significant change for the Club which chairman Jeremy Alderman explained “It has been well known for the last few years that the town has needed a 3G pitch in order for both children and adults to be able to train and play football. As a Community Club we have decided, after talks with the Football Association and the Somerset FA, that the best option for the town as a whole would be for that 3G pitch to be installed at the stadium. There have been other sites identified within the town but concerns have been lodged by several parties over them and with the majority of the infrastructure already in place it makes us a logical choice. There has been lots of talk over the last few years but nothing seems to have moved on to any great extent which has been a real disappointment which is why we have now stepped in and want to look to complete things as quickly as possible - we believe this move will be in the best interests of the town, all those who play football, and Frome Town FC. This type of facility will also provide full time employment for people so we will also be creating jobs. Since I became involved in the Club my ambition has always been to try and get Frome Town to the Conference and that ambition hasn’t changed”.
'With the decision to install a 3G pitch it means the Club will be unable to gain a further promotion at the current time but Club Secretary Ian Pearce was confident it wouldn’t hold the Robins back for long. "Over the last couple of months there has been a significant change towards the attitude on 3G pitches and just a day after we made our own decision earlier this week the FA also announced its backing for the surfaces and it appears will now be changing its rules to allow them to be used in all FA competitions which is a big change. I had a lengthy talk with Oliver Ash at Maidstone United who has been working tirelessly to get the Football Conference to change their rules to allow them to be used within their leagues and with the news that the FA are keen to see them used more it should only be a matter of time before they are widely accepted. While that is still being worked out it gives us the chance to be able to put everything in place, one of the biggest advantages is it means we won’t have the issues of postponing matches which significantly hits our income as games are always better supported on a Saturday than a midweek and with the weather getting worse every winter it also means we don’t end up with a fixture backlog which fortunately we haven’t had to contend with yet”
'Community Development Officer Gary Collinson was delighted with the news “It’s just what the town needs and to dispel any myths or rumours before they start a key message is that this will be open to use by all clubs and not just Frome Town - we have so many of our own youth teams playing out of town because of lack of facilities but this will mean that we will be able to provide far more for the community now on so many levels. It also shows that the Club really does embrace its community philosophy by putting the town first ahead of its own ambitions of further promotions. However, it doesn’t mean the ambition isn’t still there within the Club and we believe this is a way of helping us get to where we want to be. Clubs in this town pay large fees for sub-standard training facilities and we will have a facility available to everybody with a state of the art surface and all the additional benefits attached like changing rooms and toilets”
'One of the key people who this change will impact on is Manager Adrian Foster who backed the Club’s decision: “Although I am a traditionalist I can see why the Club want to go down this route and I have spoken to the Chairman who has explained the board’s thoughts on it. Obviously it will benefit the style of play we have tried to bring to the Club as it will give us a perfect surface and will also allow us as a Club to develop our community work which is something I am keen to help be a part of so I can see this being a really good long term move as it also gives me a bit of time to be able to put everything together so when promotion is a possibility we will be ready to go. I joined Frome because of the ambition they have as it matches my own as a manager so with our aim of promotion next season it would be extremely frustrating to be blocked because of obstacles put in our way by the Conference. I truly hope that they allow 3G pitches into their competition and follow the apparent route of the FA by endorsing them so not only will the Club and the local community benefit from an excellent facility but as a team we can progress without any barriers in the way”.
'Discussions with key stake holders have already begun and will continue to take place over the coming weeks as the Club look to put a timetable in place while work has already started in obtaining quotes for the works.'
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2014 14:12:11 GMT
Last summer someone made the excellent suggestion that it's all the clubs with anti-3G chairmen that we should be inviting for PSFs. Dover top of the list then!
I can wait another year for the exciting fixtures v Staines, Concord Rangers and Boreham Wood, personally. As DaveU has said, it's the uncertainty, which will probably mean some of our squad are already looking to leave at the end of the season, which is the killer.
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Post by dovergooner on Mar 13, 2014 15:06:36 GMT
It is a good suggestion, & I would love Dover to have a PSF at yours. Good day out etc. However, I reckon our Jim would be too stubborn to even entertain the idea, especially if he has a chance of being proved very wrong.
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Post by tooloow on Mar 13, 2014 15:18:49 GMT
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Post by ontheup on Mar 13, 2014 17:07:34 GMT
Hi Calais, I appreciate the points you make (as ever) but I just wondered what your take was on the following 2 statements (which I appreciate may have been media drama)
"The FA are hoping that by taking a strong supporting lead it will help smooth the issue quickly enough to avoid a potential legal battle."
"One Conference board member revealed, they were reluctant to give the Stones a green light without stronger leadership from the higher echelons of the game."
If these statements are true, would the Conference simply ignore them?....I appreciate there is no doubt they can, and at the moment are.
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Post by preciousstone on Mar 13, 2014 17:31:37 GMT
It is good to see a groundswell developing for 3G. Understandably, we tend to view the 3G debate from a Maidstone perspective.However (and I appreciate that this may be controversial) the way events have played out, up to now, suggests that we have possibly overstated our importance - to the Conference we were clearly a secondary consideration to their primary objective of 'gaming' the FA and its policy with regard to 3G.As they would appear to have been successful, it is (perhaps) an object lesson for us in organisational politicing.We are now left in something of a 'Catch-22' situation..... The FA - we can't go further with 3G, for now, because the Conference votes against..... er...yes we can...FA can get on their bike and talk to conference and say hey guys let's find way round this problem quick...club seem to think this is possible Conference - we have to have a vote to meet the FA's policy requirements.....er...no they don't...Conference has option in its rules to approve 3G without vote; simple. only need a good reason or excuse more like, which FA can provide...clearly the club think this could happen with new FA support
It suggests that we might be better placed concentrating our efforts on the FA, rather than the Conference - who may well have taken advantage of our situation to engineer a vote er ...no...Sutton United and Dorchester got vote sorted so as to bring 3G to attention of all conference (back-fired a bit did that one). designed to torpedo any change by the FA to its policy, which would have applied to all clubs, not just us, and which would, therefore, have been regarded as a much greater threat by the Conference.
Personally, I find the 'only to Step 7' policy somewhat patronising - it suggests that the standard of football at Step 7 is regarded as being of such low quality that any pitch issues can be discounted, but that 'proper' football must be played on grass..... I think we're Step 3 not Step 7, can anybody confirm?
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Post by ontheup on Mar 13, 2014 17:48:48 GMT
We are step 3 of the national league system which comes under the jurisdiction of the FA but step 7 of the pyramid
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