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Post by nws on Jan 19, 2014 21:43:54 GMT
. I always think of who the first person you would call if your house had been broken in to etc. . ...and the last to turn up
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Post by nws on Jan 19, 2014 21:52:04 GMT
Now maybe I'm taking this all too seriously (who, me?...), but it's all rather disappointing to see the derisory references towards the police.Poilce officers are tasked with a difficult, and demanding, role which most of us couldn't, or wouldn't, do.Of course, in a democratic society, the police have to be held accountable so as to maintain the highest professional standards, and to recruit from as broader base in society as possible, so as to ensure a diversity of views and opinion.But how many times do you hear someone being derisory about the police who would be the first to dial 999 if some teenage yobs were kicking down their garden fence.Some may regard it all as 'good natured banter' - just the defence that DLT et al are saying to try and justify their conduct.And for those who say 'I'd sort it myself' - well, I'm not convinced that vigilanteism is a particularly positive way forward.I remain thankful that we have the professional, and accountable, police service that we do today.
There - I can get off my 'tribune improvisee' now....And no, I don't work in law enforcement. So it is not OK to have a pop at the Police but OK to make it teenage yobs. Why not just yobs? Your point is a bit silly really because we don't really have an alternative to contacting the police to deal with crime in the same way that we can use a different shop if we think the one we have used is useless/corrupt etc. We could but would more than likely be arrested for daring to do the police's work for them.
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Post by jt on Jan 19, 2014 21:56:34 GMT
We're all corrupt! How else are they going to top up their meagre wages? That 40% tax bracket is a bitch.
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Post by jt on Jan 20, 2014 4:37:07 GMT
Try not to argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
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Post by islandstone on Jan 20, 2014 10:06:51 GMT
We're all corrupt! How else are they going to top up their meagre wages? That 40% tax bracket is a bitch. Tell me about it. Ludicrous.
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Post by islandstone on Jan 20, 2014 13:10:18 GMT
Try not to argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. I wouldn't describe anyone who holds a genuine opinion, supported by reasoned argument, as an 'idiot'. However, if making negative comment about the police is just another way of getting at you, or is just 'argument for argument's sake', then that would be different - that is why I've asked NW to support his argument.If the opinion and argument NW put forward in his earlier 'economics and happiness' thread are genuine, then it would be most surprising (to say the least) to find that he is now an advocate for public choice economics (as it is known), as that would be diametrically opposed to his earlier argument. Now, I did home economics at school, made some rice etc and was quite happy with how it went. Is this a similar thing? There wasn't any arguing.
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Post by nws on Jan 20, 2014 15:53:21 GMT
So it is not OK to have a pop at the Police but OK to make it teenage yobs. Why not just yobs? Your point is a bit silly really because we don't really have an alternative to contacting the police to deal with crime in the same way that we can use a different shop if we think the one we have used is useless/corrupt etc. We could but would more than likely be arrested for daring to do the police's work for them. There is a world of difference between reasoned critique (for example, the outrageous behaviour of senior officers at South Yorkshire over Hillsborough) and describing hard working ordinary men and women, who we all rely upon, as 'pigs', etc.Use of such terminology is derived from groups who wish to dehumanise their perceived enemy, so as to make it easy for group members to harm and kill them - in modern times it was the Black Panthers, in the US, who brought it into parlance and did go on to kill police officers.Given that I've already made clear that, in my opinion, vigilanteism is no solution, what alternative to the current structure are you proposing, and how would it work?
Your comment with regard to 'yobs' is a fair one - I added the epithet 'teenage' as my example was one of petty vandalism which, most evidence suggests, is a problem amongst younger people.My core argument - the hypocrisy of those who use derisory terms whilst being quick to call the police when required - stands.
Is that the same evidence that scapegoated the young for the London riots while carefully forgetting that the majority of people arrested were not young. Or will be the same type of evidence as jailed the Birmingham 6, Guilford 4 etc etc etc. I don't disagree that the police can do some fine work, especially when they catch and convict rapists and child molesters. However, one cannot help but raise an eyebrow when some silly people were chased with such zeal in 2011 and 2012 because they stole a bag of rice or something in the riots while we still not a single banker jailed for their part in utterly ruining the country On your core argument. You started by talking about the people on this thread making derisory comments towards the police. You are absolutely positive that the people on this thread would use the police in the way you describe are you? I have some fairly strong criticisms and words on a variety of things but continue to use them in the absence of something better. For instance I am particularly unhappy with the actions of the power industry, the water industry and the banking industry and am often derisory towards them. Perhaps I should sit in the dark, refuse to wash (well no change there) and barter for everything. One last point. If you are working or pay council tax you are forced to pay for the police whether you like it or not. Hence, you have the right to be derisory towards the sevice if you want. I have seen first hand just how derisory the police can be towards others so it is hardly one way. I am not proposing an alternative to the current structure because I am not the Home Secretary so it is not worth my time putting together such a proposal
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Post by toonarmy on Jan 20, 2014 16:35:11 GMT
Right so just to confirm did we find a suitable song
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Post by tim on Jan 20, 2014 16:52:34 GMT
I think it was 'come on you stones' and our little ditty about Brilliant Brown!
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2014 17:56:07 GMT
Right so just to confirm did we find a suitable song "they shoot who they want"
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Post by jt on Jan 20, 2014 18:00:26 GMT
Who ate all the donuts, Who ate all the donuts, Etc etc etc
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Post by islandstone on Jan 20, 2014 19:16:22 GMT
If you all hate Tottenham clap your hands
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Post by nws on Jan 20, 2014 21:54:07 GMT
Try not to argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. I wouldn't describe anyone who holds a genuine opinion, supported by reasoned argument, as an 'idiot'. However, if making negative comment about the police is just another way of getting at you, or is just 'argument for argument's sake', then that would be different - that is why I've asked NW to support his argument.If the opinion and argument NW put forward in his earlier 'economics and happiness' thread are genuine, then it would be most surprising (to say the least) to find that he is now an advocate for public choice economics (as it is known), as that would be diametrically opposed to his earlier argument. Sorry, calaisangleterre. I merely pointed out that I thought you were wrong to use the term teenage yobs and thought your point about people going to the police (that they are FORCED to pay for through taxes) while simultaneously not liking them was a bit silly, as there is not really any sensible alternative. I'm not proposing anything else just pointing out the flaws in what is in place in light of the argument you are making. Personally, if you want a bit of economics in there, I have been sceptical and cynical about the police, as an organisation, for longer than I have known jt so it has nothing to do with 'getting at' someone who can do little more than run round a messageboard chucking out insults and swearing at people they take a dislike to. He has made himself look foolish again. The reason for my cynacism about the police is that I believe they are skewed towards protecting the better off in society and are much less interested in protecting the poorer people. My point about the treatment of rioters stealing a bag of rice and bankers who brought down the country highlights my feelings on this. However, I suggest that rather than tie my original post into my economics you see it for what it was. A simple criticism of the points you made. Nothing else. If you see that as argument for arguments sake then you must accept that your post criticising people for their comments was also argument for argument's sake.
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Post by islandstone on Jan 21, 2014 13:03:50 GMT
Stand up, if you hate Tottenham, stand...and so on.
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Post by jt on Jan 21, 2014 13:13:17 GMT
I can't say I do Island Dear Chap. I do how ever need to stand up every now and then. If you do see me standing at all it doesn't mean I hate tottenham though
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