|
Post by Stonethecrow on Sept 21, 2022 6:37:02 GMT
Its a fair point. You start a post declarng on the record but then fail to provide any supporting facts. If it is honestly on the record that the 2 keepers concede goals at about the same rate, "lets be having it". JDL's credibility is on the line.
|
|
jr17
New Member
Posts: 18
|
Post by jr17 on Sept 21, 2022 8:04:49 GMT
I think you’ll find that “on record” Mersin’s stats are considerably worse than Hadler, who’s record of 14 clean sheets last year was very impressive. However Mersin has only kept one clean sheet for the stones in a good number of games now…and that was against Torquay who couldn’t hit a barn door! Therefore, “on record” Hadler is the better keeper. And is the better keeper anyway in my opinion.
|
|
|
Post by Dan on Sept 21, 2022 8:55:12 GMT
Its all very strange. Apart from a few Mersin supporters on this forum, I find that 100% of my Stones supporting mates think Hadler is the better keeper. Despite JDL claiming the facts state otherwise, which simply isn't true. We can all hold different opinions, that is different. With all the mucking around with the defence this season, one person has been an ever present. The keeper is not all the defence but it is the very last line. Like others I rate Hadler.
|
|
|
Post by jdl on Sept 21, 2022 11:26:22 GMT
Its all very strange. Apart from a few Mersin supporters on this forum, I find that 100% of my Stones supporting mates think Hadler is the better keeper. Despite JDL claiming the facts state otherwise, which simply isn't true. We can all hold different opinions, that is different. With all the mucking around with the defence this season, one person has been an ever present. The keeper is not all the defence but it is the very last line. Like others I rate Hadler. When did I claim that? I happen to think that Haddler is the better choice, but it's difficult to know, as we've never seen him face a NL side. And the stats are pretty much non-existant. We have Haddler's record in the NS, when he had the division's best defence in front of him, and nothing in the NL. So we have no idea how he would have coped in a NL game or with a defence/midfield playing as badly as ours is at the moment - except that, when we were playing badly in the NS, Hak rested him for three games - which might (or might not) have made a difference. And we have Mersin's record in the NL, with a car-crash of a team in front of him, and his four games in the NS, when we won three (the other was Dorking...). In other words, we have no idea which keeper would be best, just loads of opinions (as per). The only person in any sort of position to decide who is the better bet, is Hak. And he has, so far, chosen Mersin.
|
|
|
Post by pwoodstone on Sept 21, 2022 11:48:55 GMT
The bare facts suggest that Mersin is poorer than Hadler but it isn’t a like for like comparison. We are in a different league with better players and an unsettled defence. The stats might show that Josh Sargent, Norwich top scorer, is better than Mo Salah.
We all know the defence and whole team is culpable. They are struggling to come to terms with a quicker stronger higher quality division and we all know that.
I cam totally understand the opinion of many in here that think Hadler is the better keeper. They’ll say it is obvious, emperors new clothes etc. Their opinion and fair enough.
I can also see that there is plenty that think Mersin might be the better keeper. The main argument seems to be the doubt cast on comparing this season to last, and the fact that Hak sees them every day.
Is the opinion that Mersin is not partly to blame for our defensive record - of course. It’s a team. Everyone is responsible. Is the defense unsettled, yes, and that’s a factor.
Dave - the “what goals were Mersin’a fault” argument is not how you judge a goalie. He hasn’t stopped (m)any clangers but he can still be at fault in positioning, marshalling of defenders, comms etc but it won’t be obvious to see.
We won’t really know until Hadler gets his chance. If there is no other factor (eg Hadler stalled signing a new contract and was touting himself around or he is a lazy trainer or just a bad bloke) then you would expect Hadler to get a chance soon.
Nothing is obvious here. Nothing is certain. It’s opinion. Hak has his. We have ours.
|
|
|
Post by Dan on Sept 21, 2022 13:00:40 GMT
Its all very strange. Apart from a few Mersin supporters on this forum, I find that 100% of my Stones supporting mates think Hadler is the better keeper. Despite JDL claiming the facts state otherwise, which simply isn't true. We can all hold different opinions, that is different. With all the mucking around with the defence this season, one person has been an ever present. The keeper is not all the defence but it is the very last line. Like others I rate Hadler. When did I claim that? I happen to think that Haddler is the better choice, but it's difficult to know, as we've never seen him face a NL side. And the stats are pretty much non-existant. We have Haddler's record in the NS, when he had the division's best defence in front of him, and nothing in the NL. So we have no idea how he would have coped in a NL game or with a defence/midfield playing as badly as ours is at the moment - except that, when we were playing badly in the NS, Hak rested him for three games - which might (or might not) have made a difference. And we have Mersin's record in the NL, with a car-crash of a team in front of him, and his four games in the NS, when we won three (the other was Dorking...). In other words, we have no idea which keeper would be best, just loads of opinions (as per). The only person in any sort of position to decide who is the better bet, is Hak. And he has, so far, chosen Mersin. Don't want to fall out with you JDL, but your post expresses plenty of opinion. The statistics that are available weigh in favour of Hadler but you choose to dismiss them as 'pretty much non-existent'. You then go on to virtually dismiss his excellent record in the NLS because of the defence in front of him. It is as if he played no useful part and wasn't an integral part of that same defence. That is not a fair or balanced judgement imo. Btw, why do you spell Hadler with 2 d's ?
|
|
|
Post by steveh21 on Sept 21, 2022 15:15:23 GMT
How can you compare stats when Hadler has not played in the NL this season??? PLaying against part-time sides like Tonbridge and Dartford is hardly the same... Personally, I support both our keepers and have no issues whoever is in goal.
|
|
|
Post by Harry on Sept 21, 2022 15:20:07 GMT
Personally I support them both but think Hadler is comfortably the better keeper.
In the same way I support whoever Hak selects as centre backs, but I think Joe Ellul is the best.
|
|
|
Post by jdl on Sept 22, 2022 20:52:57 GMT
When did I claim that? I happen to think that Haddler is the better choice, but it's difficult to know, as we've never seen him face a NL side. And the stats are pretty much non-existant. We have Haddler's record in the NS, when he had the division's best defence in front of him, and nothing in the NL. So we have no idea how he would have coped in a NL game or with a defence/midfield playing as badly as ours is at the moment - except that, when we were playing badly in the NS, Hak rested him for three games - which might (or might not) have made a difference. And we have Mersin's record in the NL, with a car-crash of a team in front of him, and his four games in the NS, when we won three (the other was Dorking...). In other words, we have no idea which keeper would be best, just loads of opinions (as per). The only person in any sort of position to decide who is the better bet, is Hak. And he has, so far, chosen Mersin. Don't want to fall out with you JDL, but your post expresses plenty of opinion. The statistics that are available weigh in favour of Hadler but you choose to dismiss them as 'pretty much non-existent'. You then go on to virtually dismiss his excellent record in the NLS because of the defence in front of him. It is as if he played no useful part and wasn't an integral part of that same defence. That is not a fair or balanced judgement imo. Btw, why do you spell Hadler with 2 d's ? The 'stats' are useless as we aren't comparing like with like. That is fact, not opinion. Not sure how much clearer I can put that.
|
|
|
Post by Dan on Sept 22, 2022 21:31:25 GMT
But we can compare keepers performances whether they play in the National League or NLS. You may rubbish the comparisons if you like, that is your prerogative. In any event, please explain why Mersin who apparently wasn't good enough to play at NLS level, is deemed to be the ideal keeper for the National League.
|
|
|
Post by jdl on Sept 22, 2022 23:59:57 GMT
But we can compare keepers performances whether they play in the National League or NLS. You may rubbish the comparisons if you like, that is your prerogative. In any event, please explain why Mersin who apparently wasn't good enough to play at NLS level, is deemed to be the ideal keeper for the National League. I'm not "rubbishing" anything. The 'stats' are just useless - comparing oranges and apples. And I can't explain anything - you need to ask Hak that.
|
|
|
Post by Harry on Sept 23, 2022 6:50:42 GMT
Try comparing one keeper against another keeper. It's not hard. Not asking you to compare a racing driver with a swimmer, a boxer with a cricketer, or an apple with a pear. Poor excuse.
|
|
|
Post by grovergreenstone on Sept 23, 2022 7:00:04 GMT
In my opinion of course you can compare keepers of different divisions. If you couldn't , then you could never compare Neuer, Buffon, Cech, Casillas etc.
|
|
|
Post by daveu on Sept 23, 2022 9:32:27 GMT
In my opinion of course you can compare keepers of different divisions. If you couldn't , then you could never compare Neuer, Buffon, Cech, Casillas etc. But the only realistic comparison is if two keepers play for the same team in the same division. There are too many variables otherwise.
|
|
|
Post by Better things to do in life on Sept 23, 2022 9:47:58 GMT
There is no irony. Along with a handful of other supporters you do not wish to see what is blindingly obvious. To believe the keeper has nothing to do with the goals that the team concedes is just plain barking Ok, tell me which goals Mersin is responsible for. How about all three at Bromley Dave? Not to mention he nearly punched another one at Hayes lane into his own net. Haks interview was all about the six yard box. Which player should be in total command of his six yard box? The keeper. Its not that difficult. Mersin is just not commanding enough, he doesn't dominate his area, which is why we leak goals like crazy. Yes, the defence is to blame too but if its the six yard box, there is one defender who carries the prime responsibilty, i.e. the one wearing gloves. If Hak doesnt rate our Championship winning No1 for NL, than he needs to get an NL loanee keeper in who commands his area. Seeemples!
|
|