Who is out courting covid...

[Deleted]

This is not a flu but could be mixed up with flu as certain symptoms are very similar.

What needs to happen is the large scale use of flu vaccinations in September to help mitigate the outbreak of the latest flu strains thereby sparing the NHS from the usual Winter flu problems.

[stonesforlife]

No it like a pneumonia but worse, so on original presentation going to be impossible to tell, that will be the problem, with all the copd patients that attend us every winter

[stonesforlife]

Let's just hope for everyone, we can get some normal life back, and enjoy some football

[Deleted]

Not very likely.

We live with this nasty honey badger virus - respect it.

We need to adapt to its menace.

[Deleted]

Jul 9, 2020 22:24:13 GMT stonesforlife said:

No it like a pneumonia but worse, so on original presentation going to be impossible to tell, that will be the problem, with all the copd patients that attend us every winter

Pneumonia with blood clotting organ damaging tendencies.
 
A vicious engineered beast with nasty intentions. 

[Deleted]

Jul 9, 2020 14:09:23 GMT daveu said:

Jul 7, 2020 20:57:56 GMT nws said:

Indeed I will.

You might want to read this. I think Dave U might want to because his belief, indeed all our beliefs, about safety in the outside might be about to be shattered.

www.aol.co.uk/news/2020/07/07/who-acknowledges-emerging-evidence-of-airborne-spread-of-covid/

The latest advice is that airborne spread is still only a problem in confined spaces with little ventilation. Simply opening a window reduces the risk dramatically, and outdoors the risk is negligible, otherwise we would already be seeing a spike due to the BLM protests and the crowded beaches.

Mmmm...the scientists or Dave U...tough call

[Deleted]

Jul 9, 2020 22:45:19 GMT sennockian69 said:

Jul 9, 2020 22:24:13 GMT stonesforlife said:

No it like a pneumonia but worse, so on original presentation going to be impossible to tell, that will be the problem, with all the copd patients that attend us every winter

Pneumonia with blood clotting organ damaging tendencies.
 
A vicious engineered beast with nasty intentions. 

You are BBJ AICM £5

[Deleted]

Jul 9, 2020 23:56:25 GMT nws said:

Jul 9, 2020 14:09:23 GMT daveu said:

The latest advice is that airborne spread is still only a problem in confined spaces with little ventilation. Simply opening a window reduces the risk dramatically, and outdoors the risk is negligible, otherwise we would already be seeing a spike due to the BLM protests and the crowded beaches.

Mmmm...the scientists or Dave U...tough call

My source was Public Health England. Pretty sure they consult scientists rather than simply make it up.

[Deleted]

Are you sure? It was PHE who refused the government request to institute track and trace, on the defeatist basis that they could only cope with five cases a day.

[OldBoy73]

Jul 9, 2020 22:30:49 GMT stonesforlife said:

Let's just hope for everyone, we can get some normal life back, and enjoy some football

Hear hear - simplest but best post for ages!

[Deleted]

Jul 10, 2020 9:28:38 GMT headstone said:

Are you sure? It was PHE who refused the government request to institute track and trace, on the defeatist basis that they could only cope with five cases a day.

Globalism has its consequences.

[Deleted]

I see Baby Trump is still ducking the 'mask issue'.

Personally, I am against masks in general use (walking outside, shopping, etc) as they don't really protect you and give a false sense of security, thus encouraging people to ignore the more important safety measures like social distancing, not touching surfaces more than you have to, not touching your face, not washing/sanitising your hands, etc. I have similar feelings about gloves - and both are generally misused as well, which actually makes you even more likely to catch the virus. I would wear a mask on a train, bus, aeroplane, etc – not that I’m about to travel on any of them!

Anyway, in an attempt to apply some science to my gut feelings, I spent some time 'researching' masks, and droplet/aerosol transmission tonight.

The only really reliable masks are the N95 type worn by hospital staff, etc. These are so-called because they trap 95% of particles of the Corona virus size (around 0.1 microns). But these have to be worn correctly and be the right size (nurses' faces are - in theory - measured once a year to ensure the masks fit properly). They do not work if they are not fitted properly (e.g. around the nose and chin - they don't work with beards!) and are only worn once. The best the average non-medical masks can do is to trap about 30% of the virus particles, and, as these usually aren't fitted/worn properly, are reused many times and constantly fiddled with, they probably are pretty useless. They may be of use in catching the much larger particles of 'yuk' produced by a sneeze or cough, but such particles usually don't stay in the air more than a couple of metres anyway (hence the 2m rule).

The big unknown at the moment appears to be aerosol particles - the much smaller droplets produced by normal breathing (not much bigger than the virus itself). No one seems certain if these are a vector or not - there is conflicting evidence. These particles can stay airborne for hours or even days, although no one seems to be sure if they stay active for that long.

To give some indication of how serious this vector could be (if it does transmit the virus), cigarette smoke particles are typically around 0.2 microns (i.e. about the size of the Corona virus), and scent/deodorant particles are generally under 5 microns. So, if you are close enough to someone to smell their aftershave, or, especially, their cigarette smoke, you are also close enough to be breathing in Corona virus aerosol particles - without them having to sneeze or cough. And, of course, the average mask isn't going to catch these particles.

So, my (totally unscientific) gut feel is still that 'normal' masks are probably more of a danger than any real protection in general situations. If Covid is spread mostly my coughs and sneezes and contact, and you maintain a 2m social distance, you don't need them anyway, and if it is spread by aerosol particles, wearing a mask isn't going to make any difference. My (slightly more scientific) gut feel is that the spread of the virus has been controlled more by people not going out much, and not mixing socially, and being hyper-aware of hygiene (hand washing, etc), with social distancing probably helping. A test of this hypothesis is how many people have caught other infectious diseases during the 'lockdown' period. Our family of 4, all at home throughout the lockdown have never known such a healthy four months!

Mask wearing has, self-evidently, not been a part of this success in controlling the disease, as hardly anyone has been wearing them. My (cynical) suspicion is that the government know all this and know that if they allow people to mix together again and reduce social distancing (I passed a group of 20 or so teenagers today in town who were making absolutely no attempt to socially distance), the infection rate will rapidly increase again to something like its original level - and they are hoping against hope that wearing masks will stop this happening. I'm afraid I fear that it won't.

[Deleted]

Jul 11, 2020 1:28:13 GMT @johndaubneyslegs said:

I see Baby Trump is still ducking the 'mask issue'.

Personally, I am against masks in general use (walking outside, shopping, etc) as they don't really protect you and give a false sense of security, thus encouraging people to ignore the more important safety measures like social distancing, not touching surfaces more than you have to, not touching your face, not washing/sanitising your hands, etc. I have similar feelings about gloves - and both are generally misused as well, which actually makes you even more likely to catch the virus. I would wear a mask on a train, bus, aeroplane, etc – not that I’m about to travel on any of them!

Anyway, in an attempt to apply some science to my gut feelings, I spent some time 'researching' masks, and droplet/aerosol transmission tonight.

The only really reliable masks are the N95 type worn by hospital staff, etc. These are so-called because they trap 95% of particles of the Corona virus size (around 0.1 microns). But these have to be worn correctly and be the right size (nurses' faces are - in theory - measured once a year to ensure the masks fit properly). They do not work if they are not fitted properly (e.g. around the nose and chin - they don't work with beards!) and are only worn once. The best the average non-medical masks can do is to trap about 30% of the virus particles, and, as these usually aren't fitted/worn properly, are reused many times and constantly fiddled with, they probably are pretty useless. They may be of use in catching the much larger particles of 'yuk' produced by a sneeze or cough, but such particles usually don't stay in the air more than a couple of metres anyway (hence the 2m rule).

The big unknown at the moment appears to be aerosol particles - the much smaller droplets produced by normal breathing (not much bigger than the virus itself). No one seems certain if these are a vector or not - there is conflicting evidence. These particles can stay airborne for hours or even days, although no one seems to be sure if they stay active for that long.

To give some indication of how serious this vector could be (if it does transmit the virus), cigarette smoke particles are typically around 0.2 microns (i.e. about the size of the Corona virus), and scent/deodorant particles are generally under 5 microns. So, if you are close enough to someone to smell their aftershave, or, especially, their cigarette smoke, you are also close enough to be breathing in Corona virus aerosol particles - without them having to sneeze or cough. And, of course, the average mask isn't going to catch these particles.

So, my (totally unscientific) gut feel is still that 'normal' masks are probably more of a danger than any real protection in general situations. If Covid is spread mostly my coughs and sneezes and contact, and you maintain a 2m social distance, you don't need them anyway, and if it is spread by aerosol particles, wearing a mask isn't going to make any difference. My (slightly more scientific) gut feel is that the spread of the virus has been controlled more by people not going out much, and not mixing socially, and being hyper-aware of hygiene (hand washing, etc), with social distancing probably helping. A test of this hypothesis is how many people have caught other infectious diseases during the 'lockdown' period. Our family of 4, all at home throughout the lockdown have never known such a healthy four months!

Mask wearing has, self-evidently, not been a part of this success in controlling the disease, as hardly anyone has been wearing them. My (cynical) suspicion is that the government know all this and know that if they allow people to mix together again and reduce social distancing (I passed a group of 20 or so teenagers today in town who were making absolutely no attempt to socially distance), the infection rate will rapidly increase again to something like its original level - and they are hoping against hope that wearing masks will stop this happening. I'm afraid I fear that it won't.

A 2 A.M rant

[Deleted]

Jul 11, 2020 1:28:13 GMT @johndaubneyslegs said:

I see Baby Trump is still ducking the 'mask issue'.

Personally, I am against masks in general use (walking outside, shopping, etc) as they don't really protect you and give a false sense of security, thus encouraging people to ignore the more important safety measures like social distancing, not touching surfaces more than you have to, not touching your face, not washing/sanitising your hands, etc. I have similar feelings about gloves - and both are generally misused as well, which actually makes you even more likely to catch the virus. I would wear a mask on a train, bus, aeroplane, etc – not that I’m about to travel on any of them!

Anyway, in an attempt to apply some science to my gut feelings, I spent some time 'researching' masks, and droplet/aerosol transmission tonight.

The only really reliable masks are the N95 type worn by hospital staff, etc. These are so-called because they trap 95% of particles of the Corona virus size (around 0.1 microns). But these have to be worn correctly and be the right size (nurses' faces are - in theory - measured once a year to ensure the masks fit properly). They do not work if they are not fitted properly (e.g. around the nose and chin - they don't work with beards!) and are only worn once. The best the average non-medical masks can do is to trap about 30% of the virus particles, and, as these usually aren't fitted/worn properly, are reused many times and constantly fiddled with, they probably are pretty useless. They may be of use in catching the much larger particles of 'yuk' produced by a sneeze or cough, but such particles usually don't stay in the air more than a couple of metres anyway (hence the 2m rule).

The big unknown at the moment appears to be aerosol particles - the much smaller droplets produced by normal breathing (not much bigger than the virus itself). No one seems certain if these are a vector or not - there is conflicting evidence. These particles can stay airborne for hours or even days, although no one seems to be sure if they stay active for that long.

To give some indication of how serious this vector could be (if it does transmit the virus), cigarette smoke particles are typically around 0.2 microns (i.e. about the size of the Corona virus), and scent/deodorant particles are generally under 5 microns. So, if you are close enough to someone to smell their aftershave, or, especially, their cigarette smoke, you are also close enough to be breathing in Corona virus aerosol particles - without them having to sneeze or cough. And, of course, the average mask isn't going to catch these particles.

So, my (totally unscientific) gut feel is still that 'normal' masks are probably more of a danger than any real protection in general situations. If Covid is spread mostly my coughs and sneezes and contact, and you maintain a 2m social distance, you don't need them anyway, and if it is spread by aerosol particles, wearing a mask isn't going to make any difference. My (slightly more scientific) gut feel is that the spread of the virus has been controlled more by people not going out much, and not mixing socially, and being hyper-aware of hygiene (hand washing, etc), with social distancing probably helping. A test of this hypothesis is how many people have caught other infectious diseases during the 'lockdown' period. Our family of 4, all at home throughout the lockdown have never known such a healthy four months!

Mask wearing has, self-evidently, not been a part of this success in controlling the disease, as hardly anyone has been wearing them. My (cynical) suspicion is that the government know all this and know that if they allow people to mix together again and reduce social distancing (I passed a group of 20 or so teenagers today in town who were making absolutely no attempt to socially distance), the infection rate will rapidly increase again to something like its original level - and they are hoping against hope that wearing masks will stop this happening. I'm afraid I fear that it won't.

Looks like you won't be able to shopping soon. Masks look like they're going to be compulsory in enclosed environments.

And while they don't trap the particles, any face covering reduces the distance of spread, and even particles that escape around the sides are will not spread more than a couple of feet from the wearer. What you have to remember is that they are primarily about protected other people from possible infection by you, not the other way round.

[Deleted]

Jul 11, 2020 1:28:13 GMT @johndaubneyslegs said:

I see Baby Trump is still ducking the 'mask issue'.

Personally, I am against masks in general use (walking outside, shopping, etc) as they don't really protect you and give a false sense of security, thus encouraging people to ignore the more important safety measures like social distancing, not touching surfaces more than you have to, not touching your face, not washing/sanitising your hands, etc. I have similar feelings about gloves - and both are generally misused as well, which actually makes you even more likely to catch the virus. I would wear a mask on a train, bus, aeroplane, etc – not that I’m about to travel on any of them!

Anyway, in an attempt to apply some science to my gut feelings, I spent some time 'researching' masks, and droplet/aerosol transmission tonight.

The only really reliable masks are the N95 type worn by hospital staff, etc. These are so-called because they trap 95% of particles of the Corona virus size (around 0.1 microns). But these have to be worn correctly and be the right size (nurses' faces are - in theory - measured once a year to ensure the masks fit properly). They do not work if they are not fitted properly (e.g. around the nose and chin - they don't work with beards!) and are only worn once. The best the average non-medical masks can do is to trap about 30% of the virus particles, and, as these usually aren't fitted/worn properly, are reused many times and constantly fiddled with, they probably are pretty useless. They may be of use in catching the much larger particles of 'yuk' produced by a sneeze or cough, but such particles usually don't stay in the air more than a couple of metres anyway (hence the 2m rule).

The big unknown at the moment appears to be aerosol particles - the much smaller droplets produced by normal breathing (not much bigger than the virus itself). No one seems certain if these are a vector or not - there is conflicting evidence. These particles can stay airborne for hours or even days, although no one seems to be sure if they stay active for that long.

To give some indication of how serious this vector could be (if it does transmit the virus), cigarette smoke particles are typically around 0.2 microns (i.e. about the size of the Corona virus), and scent/deodorant particles are generally under 5 microns. So, if you are close enough to someone to smell their aftershave, or, especially, their cigarette smoke, you are also close enough to be breathing in Corona virus aerosol particles - without them having to sneeze or cough. And, of course, the average mask isn't going to catch these particles.

So, my (totally unscientific) gut feel is still that 'normal' masks are probably more of a danger than any real protection in general situations. If Covid is spread mostly my coughs and sneezes and contact, and you maintain a 2m social distance, you don't need them anyway, and if it is spread by aerosol particles, wearing a mask isn't going to make any difference. My (slightly more scientific) gut feel is that the spread of the virus has been controlled more by people not going out much, and not mixing socially, and being hyper-aware of hygiene (hand washing, etc), with social distancing probably helping. A test of this hypothesis is how many people have caught other infectious diseases during the 'lockdown' period. Our family of 4, all at home throughout the lockdown have never known such a healthy four months!

Mask wearing has, self-evidently, not been a part of this success in controlling the disease, as hardly anyone has been wearing them. My (cynical) suspicion is that the government know all this and know that if they allow people to mix together again and reduce social distancing (I passed a group of 20 or so teenagers today in town who were making absolutely no attempt to socially distance), the infection rate will rapidly increase again to something like its original level - and they are hoping against hope that wearing masks will stop this happening. I'm afraid I fear that it won't.

As you may or may not know I rely solely on public transport to get around but with my respiratory problems I find it very uncomfortable wearing a mask. I have a valid reason not to wear one and I have a valid exemption card but as from Monday 13 July ARRIVA buses are set to refuse entry to everyone who does not wear a mask regardless of age and medical conditions. This goes against government guidelines which states you must wear a mask unless you have good reason not to. This decision will leave me stranded with no transport unless I put my own health at risk by wearing a mask.