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Post by pedant on Jun 20, 2020 12:58:46 GMT
I didnt say it started the day he left but We had started the season ok. I'd swap that for today's position of being worst current team in NLS..you'd need an odd definition of progress to claim we have not gone backwards. :-) With the 'current' league season having been finished and with the old adage that the table doesn't lie "today's position" is that there were 13 teams worse than us in NLS.
So, after a three year excursion into a league we were 'fortunate' to get in to and that the Club's directors acknowledged early on that we weren't ready for, the club finds itself just outside the season's playoffs and just 6 places below where it finished last time in this league. Whilst not positive progress its not quite the disaster that some would have us believe.
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Post by sword65 on Jun 20, 2020 13:57:41 GMT
Sorry to go all Pedant on you but you cannot really have an old adage as adage means old adage unless you mean an old old adage and then it gets complicated .
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Post by shamstone on Jun 20, 2020 14:15:14 GMT
One fact people cannot argue with is that since the day Jay left the club has gone backwards. Ending bottom of form table in NLS!! Hak would be the safe choice for the Board who will want to avoid another Wheeler fiasco. You just said it
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Post by jdl on Jun 20, 2020 14:44:12 GMT
I didnt say it started the day he left but We had started the season ok. I'd swap that for today's position of being worst current team in NLS..you'd need an odd definition of progress to claim we have not gone backwards. :-) With the 'current' league season having been finished and with the old adage that the table doesn't lie "today's position" is that there were 13 teams worse than us in NLS.
So, after a three year excursion into a league we were 'fortunate' to get in to and that the Club's directors acknowledged early on that we weren't ready for, the club finds itself just outside the season's playoffs and just 6 places below where it finished last time in this league. Whilst not positive progress its not quite the disaster that some would have us believe.
Tables frequently (always?) lie. According to the 'final' table, we were on the verge of the play-offs, and a couple of decent results would have clinched it. But look at our form post-Eastbourne and you get a very diferent picture - practically a death spiral! The real final table could have shown us in the play-offs - not a bad end to our 'recovery' season, and the chance to get back into the NL, but it's more likely to have shown a poor, lower mid-table finish after a wretched season. If tables really didn't lie, there wouldn't be this insane insistence by the clubs involved to play the play-offs at any cost!
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Post by pedant on Jun 20, 2020 14:54:09 GMT
Sorry to go all Pedant on you but you cannot really have an old adage as adage means old adage unless you mean an old old adage and then it gets complicated . Thought I'd made yet another error there, but ....
the first 'Googled' definition has the following:
"adage
noun
noun: adage; plural noun: adages
a proverb or short statement expressing a general truth.
"the old adage ‘out of sight out of mind’" "
Based on this it appears 'old' is not implicit in its use and one could theoretically have a new adage.
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Post by Rob on Jun 20, 2020 15:26:51 GMT
In any case the last time Jay Saunders managed the Stones in NLS, we finished 2nd.
The last time John Still and Hak managed the team in NLS we finished 7th.
Steve would say that is going backwards, but maybe Pedant has a different take.
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Post by Stonethecrow on Jun 20, 2020 15:29:41 GMT
Tbf I think Jay's achievement in keeping us in the National League over 2 seasons is a hell of a sight better than what John and Hak managed last season.
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Post by Nick on Jun 20, 2020 15:43:35 GMT
The 15/16 season in NLS managed by Jay Saunders = 24 wins
The 19/20 season in NLS managed by Hak and JS2 = 12 wins
For sure we still had another 9 matches to play, but how many of those were we going to win on form ?
But I expect pedant to put some spin on how much better we were really doing this time around.
The truth is Steve is right about our direction of travel.
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Post by jackster on Jun 20, 2020 15:52:00 GMT
Is that true, only 12 league wins all season ?
And at a time when the owners kept a decent playing budget and full time status
No wonder supporters are wondering if more of the same management (less JS2) is the right way.
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Post by pedant on Jun 20, 2020 16:27:01 GMT
In any case the last time Jay Saunders managed the Stones in NLS, we finished 2nd. The last time John Still and Hak managed the team in NLS we finished 7th. Steve would say that is going backwards, but maybe Pedant has a different take. I think you'll find it was Ebbsfleet United who finished 2nd, which is why they had home advantage for the play-off final. I believe we were 3rd and this season we finished 9th.
Why speculate if I have "a different take"? I thought my take was quite clear - "Whilst not positive progress its not quite the disaster that some would have us believe."
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Post by pedant on Jun 20, 2020 16:47:20 GMT
The 15/16 season in NLS managed by Jay Saunders = 24 wins The 19/20 season in NLS managed by Hak and JS2 = 12 wins For sure we still had another 9 matches to play, but how many of those were we going to win on form ? But I expect pedant to put some spin on how much better we were really doing this time around.
The truth is Steve is right about our direction of travel. Your expectations will not be met by me.
Its about opinions as I don't think the two seasons are directly comparable. Even so it might be worth remembering that the club entered the 15/16 season with a relatively established squad, a settled manager and on a winning run. The club entered the 19/20 season from a completely different direction.
The last few games were 'fairly poor' * but overall I would suggest the final position was not dramatically different from what the majority of people expected before the season began.
* happy for you to insert your own wording instead of 'fairly poor'
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Post by Nick on Jun 20, 2020 17:59:07 GMT
You are not named pedant for nothing.
Whilst you may put some favourable spin on last season, I think we are a little distance apart in terms of expectations and aspirations.
What I saw was the owners continuing to invest in a pretty expensive management regime plus a costly playing squad.
To me that demonstrated ambition and commitment.
But we failed to get into the play-offs which was the agreed target at the start of the season and confidently predicted by John and Hak.
Not a disaster but not a success either.
12 league wins over the course of what was mostly an uninspiring season is not too much to shout about.
Only achieving 50% of the wins that Jay delivered in his promotion season in the NLS.
Attendances have been dropping in their hundreds which does no favours for the club at all.
At the end of the season when we were meant to be getting stronger (according to our management duo), lets just say the team disappointed a shade.
Plenty of decent players in the squad, but put them all together and it seemed like 'the whole' was weaker than the 'individual parts'.
If the progress and performances shown by 'his team' has convinced the owners that Hak is the man for the job, then fair enough.
If Hak signs a new contract I will back him 100%, but until then .............
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Post by sword65 on Jun 20, 2020 18:51:50 GMT
Sorry to go all Pedant on you but you cannot really have an old adage as adage means old adage unless you mean an old old adage and then it gets complicated . Thought I'd made yet another error there, but ....
the first 'Googled' definition has the following:
"adage
noun
noun: adage; plural noun: adages
a proverb or short statement expressing a general truth.
"the old adage ‘out of sight out of mind’" "
Based on this it appears 'old' is not implicit in its use and one could theoretically have a new adage.
I blame my English teacher Elizabeth Taylor,no not that one,nor any relation as she told me that using old before the word adage is not acceptable English. That's my story and I'm sticking to it😁
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Post by hongkongstone on Jun 21, 2020 1:49:18 GMT
I seem to remember that a certain manager (Hak) returned to Braintree after an unsuccessful spell as manager. Maybe not a great example of a manager returning, cause he wasn't great 2nd time round either. A I recall he took Braintree to the bottom of the NL by the middle of thar season. Then when he came here with JS2 we eventually finished bottom of the table below Braintree. We weren't even in the relegation places before JS1 departed and neither even close to last place under the clown.
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Post by hongkongstone on Jun 21, 2020 1:58:30 GMT
The 15/16 season in NLS managed by Jay Saunders = 24 wins The 19/20 season in NLS managed by Hak and JS2 = 12 wins For sure we still had another 9 matches to play, but how many of those were we going to win on form ? But I expect pedant to put some spin on how much better we were really doing this time around. The truth is Steve is right about our direction of travel. And how does the playing budget compare between the 2 periods. I am sure it was relatively better this eason rather than 4 years ago!
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