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Post by daveu on Apr 4, 2020 12:36:49 GMT
That's great to hear Jayser, by the way how is Tom Mills doing now ? How may current examples can you give of Kent based P/T players we could recruit who are better than our current crop ? I believe he went to play for Sheppey Utd, but can't find anything online to confirm that. His online history seems to end when he left The Stones
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Post by pigbag on Apr 4, 2020 13:35:33 GMT
When did the "old" Stones become full time professionals? Gary Breen was not full time but I think Steve Butler was. How many of the side that got promotion to Div 4 were full time before we were promoted? I seem to remember John Still left at that time because he did not want to be full time.
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Post by Nick on Apr 4, 2020 13:57:07 GMT
That's great to hear Jayser, by the way how is Tom Mills doing now ? How may current examples can you give of Kent based P/T players we could recruit who are better than our current crop ? I believe he went to play for Sheppey Utd, but can't find anything online to confirm that. His online history seems to end when he left The Stones The thing is daveu, that for the fans arguing for a return to recruiting part timers cause you can get better players, two proper legends Millsy and Flish are the 2 names so often cited as the talent we lost when the club turned full-time. They were both great at the time and the level at which they played, but neither of them wanted to accept the challenge of National League football, which is fair enough. It is also fair enough to say that neither of them did much at all after leaving the Stones.
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Post by daveu on Apr 4, 2020 14:01:47 GMT
I believe he went to play for Sheppey Utd, but can't find anything online to confirm that. His online history seems to end when he left The Stones The thing is daveu, that for the fans arguing for a return to recruiting part timers cause you can get better players, Millsy and Flish are the 2 names so often repeated as the talent we lost when the club turned part-time.. If either of them had gone on the do really well with other clubs on a part-time basis, I could understand the argument. How well did either of them do after they quit Stones, well I'm pretty sure it was nothing to write home about Flish is at Hythe, so back in the Isthmian South, and as I said, Mills appears to have dropped of the radar altogether. Not too many of the team that won that playoff final are playing at or above NLS so you're right, the argument for better part time players doesn't really add up.
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Post by Dan on Apr 4, 2020 14:10:27 GMT
Hak claims that about 75% of the new signings this season have been a success.
Don't think so !
You tend to forget very quickly some of the signings who moved on, but I would guess that nearer 50% have flopped.
Some of the others have been alright or better but we finished where we did in the season for a reason.
If the wages bill is going to slashed by say a third, Hak will have a huge job attracting better players than last season.
Unless of course bbj, jdl etc etc are actually right and there is a crop of serious talent out there just waiting for Stones to convert to part-time.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2020 20:40:53 GMT
When did the "old" Stones become full time professionals? Gary Breen was not full time but I think Steve Butler was. How many of the side that got promotion to Div 4 were full time before we were promoted? I seem to remember John Still left at that time because he did not want to be full time. As soon as we went into the football league. If I remember rightly, three of our players who decided they didn't want to be professionals were sent off to Redbridge Forest as a swap for Warren Barton. We have a number of mediocre players in our squad who don't deserve to be full-time. Some of you claim there aren't better players out there despite the fact we couldn't beat a number of part-time teams in our division, and the fact a number of part-time clubs have had very successful seasons in the division above, never mind NLS. Being professional did cock-all for us this year and it will do cock-all for us next year if we spend another season stuck with poor players who won't leave the club because they like getting paid a full-time wage for being poor.
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Post by jdl on Apr 4, 2020 21:48:57 GMT
I believe he went to play for Sheppey Utd, but can't find anything online to confirm that. His online history seems to end when he left The Stones The thing is daveu, that for the fans arguing for a return to recruiting part timers cause you can get better players, two proper legends Millsy and Flish are the 2 names so often cited as the talent we lost when the club turned full-time. They were both great at the time and the level at which they played, but neither of them wanted to accept the challenge of National League football but neither of them wanted to give up their day jobs because, at their time in life, they needed the security, which is fair enough. It is also fair enough to say that neither of them did much at all after leaving the Stones. I've corrected your statement. As for your last comment, you are implying a causality for which there is no proof. Flish had been badly injured at least twice in the previous two years and was no longer the player he had been. We all knew that. The most he could have expected was a season coming off the bench as super-sub. Why would he give up his day job for that? Given his injuries, I'm happy to still see him playing at all. Mills publicly admitted that football was a second-string thing for him, and he was surprised to do as well as he did (he had been on the verge of giving it up a few years before, believing he was getting nowhere). As things turned out, he managed each step up with us and his game consistently improved. He proved himself at NL level, and, personally, I thought he had at least a couple of years at that level left in him. But would you give up your guaranteed income, for two years NL salary, with a mortgage and family? So, neither of them doing much at all after leaving the Stones is just coincidence, it just happened to be the peak of their careers - no causality at all. And certainly no proof that good part-time players can't hack it in the NL. After all, our best season in the NL was with a part-time squad. Not to mention our best season in the NS…
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Post by jdl on Apr 4, 2020 21:57:17 GMT
When did the "old" Stones become full time professionals? Gary Breen was not full time but I think Steve Butler was. How many of the side that got promotion to Div 4 were full time before we were promoted? I seem to remember John Still left at that time because he did not want to be full time. Once again, it depends on the definition of 'full-time'. As far as I can remember, we didn't have daytime training then (but I could easily be wrong), so we were technically still part-time. But I suspect at least some of the salaries were close to Div 4 ones. Under JT, you never knew what money was going where, but certainly a lot of it was being spent, and I'm pretty sure some of that was going on 'topping up' players' salaries. Players were always very keen to play for us, and I reckon that wasn't just because we wore nice blazers... You (literally) pays your money and takes your choice.
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Post by nws on Apr 4, 2020 22:11:19 GMT
I believe he went to play for Sheppey Utd, but can't find anything online to confirm that. His online history seems to end when he left The Stones The thing is daveu, that for the fans arguing for a return to recruiting part timers cause you can get better players, two proper legends Millsy and Flish are the 2 names so often cited as the talent we lost when the club turned full-time. They were both great at the time and the level at which they played, but neither of them wanted to accept the challenge of National League football, which is fair enough. It is also fair enough to say that neither of them did much at all after leaving the Stones. Flish had a bad injury and lost his pace. He could have been a league player. I'm pretty certain Chris Smalling and Adrian Webster were not FT and they went on to become internationals
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Post by pwoodstone on Apr 4, 2020 22:17:40 GMT
People making a judgement on FT v PT based on the Stones rise through the leagues and our form since full time are doing so on a small sample size with many other variables.
I think it actually comes down to Jay putting a very good side together versus the managers at the moment not managing to get it right.
John and Hal May have had the same problem even if they’d been PT.
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Post by jdl on Apr 4, 2020 23:36:39 GMT
People making a judgement on FT v PT based on the Stones rise through the leagues and our form since full time are doing so on a small sample size with many other variables. I think it actually comes down to Jay putting a very good side together versus the managers at the moment not managing to get it right. John and Hal May have had the same problem even if they’d been PT. Bring back Jay?
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Post by sword65 on Apr 5, 2020 1:41:58 GMT
When did the "old" Stones become full time professionals? Gary Breen was not full time but I think Steve Butler was. How many of the side that got promotion to Div 4 were full time before we were promoted? I seem to remember John Still left at that time because he did not want to be full time. Once again, it depends on the definition of 'full-time'. As far as I can remember, we didn't have daytime training then (but I could easily be wrong), so we were technically still part-time. But I suspect at least some of the salaries were close to Div 4 ones. Under JT, you never knew what money was going where, but certainly a lot of it was being spent, and I'm pretty sure some of that was going on 'topping up' players' salaries. Players were always very keen to play for us, and I reckon that wasn't just because we wore nice blazers... You (literally) pays your money and takes your choice. Definition of full time: Being paid too much for doing too little .
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2020 20:00:00 GMT
People making a judgement on FT v PT based on the Stones rise through the leagues and our form since full time are doing so on a small sample size with many other variables. I think it actually comes down to Jay putting a very good side together versus the managers at the moment not managing to get it right. John and Hal May have had the same problem even if they’d been PT. But not 'getting it right' in what sense? In terms of the players they sign, their tactics, their motivational skills? For the argument here we surely have to assess the players ability, not what the managers did or didn't do. It's my view we have several players in our squad who probably can't believe how lucky they are to be full-time. They just aren't good enough to justify it. Either we find the budget to pay players who do justify being full-time, and are capable of getting us promoted, or we go part-time and pay players of the same calibre part-time wages if that's all we can afford. Does that not make sense?
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Post by Fed up with PC views only on Apr 5, 2020 20:38:15 GMT
People making a judgement on FT v PT based on the Stones rise through the leagues and our form since full time are doing so on a small sample size with many other variables. I think it actually comes down to Jay putting a very good side together versus the managers at the moment not managing to get it right. John and Hal May have had the same problem even if they’d been PT. Bring back Jay? In Hak we trust 😊
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Post by steveh21 on Apr 5, 2020 21:04:08 GMT
...still waiting for someone to give one positive since we went full-time.... no rush :-)
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