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Post by La femme de Vic Jobson on Apr 1, 2020 19:50:26 GMT
We'll be like Nairo Quintana when the altitude is over 2000 metres. We'll suffer. But others will suffer more.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2020 20:38:40 GMT
It’s worth remembering that some clubs (Tonbridge are an obvious example) were already financially screwed thanks to the weather. We shall indeed be in a much stronger position than many, even with some belt tightening.
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Post by jdl on Apr 1, 2020 22:40:46 GMT
I'm actually looking forward to next season so much now that I'm starting to really worry that it won't happen!
But that is a lot better than worrying whether or not I'll be there to see it...
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Post by Rob on Apr 2, 2020 6:45:00 GMT
There is no getting away from it that going backwards to training a couple of nights a week and paying lower wages to players is going backwards. It's fine up to a point because the decision has been forced upon the owners. Never quite understood why some supporters feel that paying lower wages, reducing the catchment area and requiring players to train a couple of nights after a hard days work, will produce a team that will take the National South by storm.The change is all about cutting costs, nothing to do with attracting better players. But it is what it is. The club has to draw breath, take stock and start again with a new portfolio. I think Hak will still be with us next season, mainly cause he sees the potential in the club to 'rise again'. But we can expect to lose plenty of players from the current squad. Perhaps because it worked before? Compare our 'full-time' seasons with our part-time ones. I'm not particularly in favour of either approach - whichever fits best/produces the best results would be my preference. But you can't really argue with our experience. With our gates, as good as they are in non-league terms, and no sugar-daddy, we simply can't afford to be 'full-time', especially in the NS. Look at the teams that do well in the NL - they are overwhelmingly the ones with EFL level gates, or sources of money that don't depend on gates. Oh yes I can ! Argue about what we remember about the experience I mean. Lots of 1-0 wins, not much difference between the teams and a style of football that was not particularly pretty. Happy days indeed, but we wern't so critical then and the team had a way of grinding out results. Not to mention that we were a class above Ebbsfleet (not). But it did work for us because the results showed that we earnt a promotion with a team that probably wasn't so strong as the 19/20 version. But going backwards simply isn't the way forward. 'Needs must', which is fair enough, but simply to believe that paying lower wages, providing less training and reducing the pool of players available = success. Well let's just say we can agree to disagree, without falling out.
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Post by steveh21 on Apr 2, 2020 7:16:40 GMT
This is great news and sensible. The club can rebuild properly in the NLS as PT and go full time whenever we are promoted.
We will be a great draw for the best PT players in the SE next season when it is not just money that talks.
Ebbsfleet must be v worried they have to fund another season in NL, Dover too. Low crowds and them being FT is unsustainable.
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Post by 61666 on Apr 2, 2020 7:23:59 GMT
Can only echo what has been posted above It was not that long ago that we achieved promotion from the NLS with a part time squad. The idea the FT players are somehow better than PT ones doesn't work for me. PT players choose that path because they want the security of a long term career or job. Day time training should make players fitter (you'd hope) and work better as a team - though our set piece work has me doubting that! For PT players, is it possible that training and playing is actually more fun than FT? The latter becomes merely a job, with not that many hours, so a lot of spare time to fill in. That path can lead to laziness - remember the three on the naughty step for being late? Years ago, remember being told by a semi pro that the difference between what he could do, in terms of skill, and a FT player, was minimal. It what what went on between the ears that counted for success - attitudes, fitness, diet, desire. It is even arguable that many PT players are actually more intelligent than FT ones. I think it was Bob Paisley who once said that in managing players, he had to remember that many of them were just 'working Joes', who needed a lot of guidance - and that was at the highest level. Last year, John Still said that it was not about individual players so much as how they worked together that mattered. Personally, I will take more local, part timers, who play the game for fun and stay fit because they want to, over a load of journeymen professionals any day. As for training hours, sometimes, less is more and though the team appear to be drilled in all sorts of things, when it comes to match days, too many lack the confidence or intelligence to just do what is right in the moment. Our short stay in the NL showed to me that it had become a very formulaic league. Teams of very big, very strong players, but few with any flair, who could simply muscle their way through games. I'd like to think there are better alternatives to that and over the next couple of years, part time could well be the answer.
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Post by steveh21 on Apr 2, 2020 7:45:49 GMT
Can only echo what has been posted above It was not that long ago that we achieved promotion from the NLS with a part time squad. The idea the FT players are somehow better than PT ones doesn't work for me. PT players choose that path because they want the security of a long term career or job. Day time training should make players fitter (you'd hope) and work better as a team - though our set piece work has me doubting that! For PT players, is it possible that training and playing is actually more fun than FT? The latter becomes merely a job, with not that many hours, so a lot of spare time to fill in. That path can lead to laziness - remember the three on the naughty step for being late? Years ago, remember being told by a semi pro that the difference between what he could do, in terms of skill, and a FT player, was minimal. It what what went on between the ears that counted for success - attitudes, fitness, diet, desire. It is even arguable that many PT players are actually more intelligent than FT ones. I think it was Bob Paisley who once said that in managing players, he had to remember that many of them were just 'working Joes', who needed a lot of guidance - and that was at the highest level. Last year, John Still said that it was not about individual players so much as how they worked together that mattered. Personally, I will take more local, part timers, who play the game for fun and stay fit because they want to, over a load of journeymen professionals any day. As for training hours, sometimes, less is more and though the team appear to be drilled in all sorts of things, when it comes to match days, too many lack the confidence or intelligence to just do what is right in the moment. Our short stay in the NL showed to me that it had become a very formulaic league. Teams of very big, very strong players, but few with any flair, who could simply muscle their way through games. I'd like to think there are better alternatives to that and over the next couple of years, part time could well be the answer. What a great post. Spot on Sir. Part time players can earn more than FT as they have other jobs.
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Post by jdh80 on Apr 2, 2020 7:48:55 GMT
This is great news and sensible. The club can rebuild properly in the NLS as PT and go full time whenever we are promoted. We will be a great draw for the best PT players in the SE next season when it is not just money that talks. Ebbsfleet must be v worried they have to fund another season in NL, Dover too. Low crowds and them being FT is unsustainable. I disagree that it is great news, yes a part time squad can/will get us promoted but when we are promoted and change to full time we'd have to rebuild with a whole new squad of players as i don't think being part time will work in the national league based on the extra travel commitments it brings which will impact their work/life/football balance for the players. We will end up being a yoyo club going through players as quick as anything swapping from fulltime in the nl, then changing to part time in the nls there will be no continuity.
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Post by steveh21 on Apr 2, 2020 8:01:29 GMT
This is great news and sensible. The club can rebuild properly in the NLS as PT and go full time whenever we are promoted. We will be a great draw for the best PT players in the SE next season when it is not just money that talks. Ebbsfleet must be v worried they have to fund another season in NL, Dover too. Low crowds and them being FT is unsustainable. I disagree that it is great news, yes a part time squad can/will get us promoted but when we are promoted and change to full time we'd have to rebuild with a whole new squad of players as i don't think being part time will work in the national league based on the extra travel commitments it brings which will impact their work/life/football balance for the players. We will end up being a yoyo club going through players as quick as anything swapping from fulltime in the nl, then changing to part time in the nls there will be no continuity. Do you think we can afford to be FT in a part time league? What benefit have we seen from being FT apart from relegation and about 5 managers?? We have been played off the park this season by some PT teams.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2020 8:32:49 GMT
As for the JCLs Swordy, I think they ruin the atmosphere (and add to it in good times). I am hoping a change in perspective and generally a happiness to have the game back, might lead to a much more chilled view of the club and the game at this level. JCL's What be they? Are they: a) precursors of the modern-day JDL, found roaming temperate grasslands in the Bronze age offering statistical breakdowns of axe-head types; b) excavators to be found in a theme park near Strood; c) Johnny-Come-Latelys?
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Post by La femme de Vic Jobson on Apr 2, 2020 9:43:05 GMT
Not to mention that we were a class above Ebbsfleet (not). If you mean Gravesend & Northfleet, the only reason that game even went to extra time was because of a "charitable" penalty. Otherwise it'd have been a 1-0 to the Maidstone classic like the league game earlier in the season.
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Post by swampy on Apr 2, 2020 10:34:24 GMT
I disagree that it is great news, yes a part time squad can/will get us promoted but when we are promoted and change to full time we'd have to rebuild with a whole new squad of players as i don't think being part time will work in the national league based on the extra travel commitments it brings which will impact their work/life/football balance for the players. We will end up being a yoyo club going through players as quick as anything swapping from fulltime in the nl, then changing to part time in the nls there will be no continuity. Do you think we can afford to be FT in a part time league? What benefit have we seen from being FT apart from relegation and about 5 managers?? We have been played off the park this season by some PT teams. I think people are getting confused confused between FT and PT and what it implies. I don't think we as a club have embraced it fully. As far as am aware this season we trained 2 mornings a week 9am-midday, where as talking to Weymouth fans when we played down there they trained 3 evening's a week 7pm-10pm. Also don't be fooled into thinking that members of the current squad don't have other jobs/commitments outside of football. When we 1st went FT Joe Anderson used to train with us in the morning and then go and Drive Blackcabs in London till the early hours.
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Post by jdl on Apr 2, 2020 11:13:57 GMT
Perhaps because it worked before? Compare our 'full-time' seasons with our part-time ones. I'm not particularly in favour of either approach - whichever fits best/produces the best results would be my preference. But you can't really argue with our experience. With our gates, as good as they are in non-league terms, and no sugar-daddy, we simply can't afford to be 'full-time', especially in the NS. Look at the teams that do well in the NL - they are overwhelmingly the ones with EFL level gates, or sources of money that don't depend on gates. Oh yes I can ! Argue about what we remember about the experience I mean. Lots of 1-0 wins, not much difference between the teams and a style of football that was not particularly pretty. Happy days indeed, but we wern't so critical then and the team had a way of grinding out results. Not to mention that we were a class above Ebbsfleet (not). But it did work for us because the results showed that we earnt a promotion with a team that probably wasn't so strong as the 19/20 version. But going backwards simply isn't the way forward. 'Needs must', which is fair enough, but simply to believe that paying lower wages, providing less training and reducing the pool of players available = success. Well let's just say we can agree to disagree, without falling out. This constant use of the phrase "going backwards" needs to be questioned. Is what we've had for the last three years progress, compared to what went before? Has it been 'going forwards'? For my money, this has not been progress at all, it's been changes based on false assumptions (that we're a bigger team than we are, that we somehow 'deserve' to be in the NL) and false analysis (that just going 'full-time' will somehow make all the difference, that throwing money at the 'problem' will somehow increase the gates sufficently to pay for it). When you take the wrong direction and get lost and confused, the wise thing is to go back, learn from what you did wrong and try again - in a different direction. Going back is not the same thing as going backwards.
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Post by Bernie on Apr 2, 2020 11:30:57 GMT
Before we ever go full time again at some stage in the future, the club need to understand why it was of little benefit the first time round. Why have other clubs managed the transition so much better? Or we need to accept that due to the size of clubs these days, we are a yo-yo club and will always be a small fish in the National League.
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Post by 61666 on Apr 2, 2020 11:52:53 GMT
Who are the bigger/biggest clubs? It doesn't take long to realise they are the ones in the biggest town/cities, usually with a lot of history behind them. They fall down the pyramid occasionally - Man City, Wolves, Sunderland etc - but their heritage (whatever that means) helps them survive, along with a large fan base. A few interlopers gate crash the party from time to time: the likes of Wimbledon, Bournemouth, Wigan and lower down Burton and Fleetwood. Maidstone are just one of a host of clubs aspiring to a place in the spotlight, but along with the likes of Macclesfield, Stevenage, Morecambe etc etc, we can dream, but there are plenty wanting the same and only a handful can succeed each year. Given the current crisis, having a team to support at all could be lost to some towns, which is not to say I don't want us to succeed, but sometimes you have to moderate expectations a little.
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