|
Post by jdl on Feb 11, 2020 0:52:26 GMT
OK, here's some 'tosh' for you:
We finished 14th out of 24 in our first NL season, with a team of part-timers. Ending up on the same points as Sutton, Wrexham and 11th placed Boring Wood. OK, it wasn't easy, and we had our (then) traditional mid-season 'blip', but we survived reasonably comfortably in the end.
You could, of course, argue that this was just 'first season momentum' - but we didn't do too badly the next season either. Another mid-season mega 'blip' and only avoiding relegation by 3 places, but we were 6 points clear, and finished with only 4 points less than the previous season - and on the same points as Solihull and Gateshead, both of whom had bigger budgets than us. Meanwhile two more ex-EFL sides (Torquay and Chester*) dropped out of the league, following York from the previous season.
Not a great season, no one would argue otherwise, but we survived, in the end fairly comfortably, whereas other clubs, with more money than us didn't.
Then we got serious, sacked our 'amateur' manager, employed some wanker who talked the talk, spunked thousands down the drain - and crashed out in total humiliation in bottom place.
What got us into the the NL, and kept us there for two seasons? A shit load of money, or a decent manager?
What got us out of the NL in style the following season? A shit load of money or a decent manager?
(*which is apparently an entirely different place to Wrexham)
|
|
|
Post by daveu on Feb 11, 2020 8:29:03 GMT
And one minor point - going 'full-time' meant MUFC actually using the 3G more themselves, so less availability for revenue earning purposes. It effectively cost us money to go full-time, even before we paid any wages! Less availability in the daytime perhaps, but two more free evenings when it's more likely to attract potential hirings. The only thing that's really been affected is when academy games can take place.
|
|
|
Post by Dan on Feb 11, 2020 8:38:24 GMT
Facts as always are on the mark, but some of the analysis is just a little wayward. Nobody should dispute that good management is always essential for success in football, all other things being equal. But surely you will accept that the National League is not a level playing field when it comes to sugar daddies and wages. Just saying that if you have a bottom 25% wage budget then sooner or later that is going to be a drag on player recruitment and success. Really good management can upset that view of the world sometimes, but eventually money and the tide talks. Just ask Mr Canute.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2020 9:34:59 GMT
Meanwhile two more ex-EFL sides (Torquay and Wrexham) dropped out of the league Gaarrgghh, I've done it again - I read a ridiculously long JDL post until I got to the glaring error. Chester, not Wrexham. We could tie you to a lamp-post in Chester (or Wrexham) with a placard on your chest saying "Chester? Wrexham? Same thing..." and see what happens...
|
|
|
Post by sword65 on Feb 11, 2020 9:44:31 GMT
Meanwhile two more ex-EFL sides (Torquay and Wrexham) dropped out of the league Gaarrgghh, I've done it again - I read a ridiculously long JDL post until I got to the glaring error. Chester, not Wrexham. We could tie you to a lamp-post in Chester (or Wrexham) with a placard on your chest saying "Chester? Wrexham? Same thing..." and see what happens... I thought that when I read it but wasnt 100%sure that my memory wasnt playing tricks on me. If you tied him to that lamp-post I think the owners of every dog in the local vicinity would allow their dog to piss on him. Hold on this is JDL dogs like pissing up his leg especially from Dagenham.
|
|
|
Post by jdl on Feb 11, 2020 10:31:23 GMT
Meanwhile two more ex-EFL sides (Torquay and Wrexham) dropped out of the league Gaarrgghh, I've done it again - I read a ridiculously long JDL post until I got to the glaring error. Chester, not Wrexham. We could tie you to a lamp-post in Chester (or Wrexham) with a placard on your chest saying "Chester? Wrexham? Same thing..." and see what happens... Chester, Wrexham - more or less the same place. Got to keep you on your toes, Ox.
|
|
|
Post by Tstone on Feb 11, 2020 10:55:21 GMT
Gaarrgghh, I've done it again - I read a ridiculously long JDL post until I got to the glaring error. Chester, not Wrexham. We could tie you to a lamp-post in Chester (or Wrexham) with a placard on your chest saying "Chester? Wrexham? Same thing..." and see what happens... I thought that when I read it but wasnt 100%sure that my memory wasnt playing tricks on me. If you tied him to that lamp-post I think the owners of every dog in the local vicinity would allow their dog to piss on him. Hold on this is JDL dogs like pissing up his leg especially from Dagenham. One of JDL's legs comes from Dagenham?
|
|
|
Post by Fed up with PC views only on Feb 11, 2020 12:56:33 GMT
OK, here's some 'tosh' for you: We finished 14th out of 24 in our first NL season, with a team of part-timers. Ending up on the same points as Sutton, Wrexham and 11th placed Boring Wood. OK, it wasn't easy, and we had our (then) traditional mid-season 'blip', but we survived reasonably comfortably in the end. You could, of course, argue that this was just 'first season momentum' - but we didn't do too badly the next season either. Another mid-season mega 'blip' and only avoiding relegation by 3 places, but we were 6 points clear, and finished with only 4 points less than the previous season - and on the same points as Solihull and Gateshead, both of whom had bigger budgets than us. Meanwhile two more ex-EFL sides (Torquay and Wrexham) dropped out of the league, following York from the previous season. Not a great season, no one would argue otherwise, but we survived, in the end fairly comfortably, whereas other clubs, with more money than us didn't.
Then we got serious, sacked our 'amateur' manager, employed some wanker who talked the talk, spunked thousands down the drain - and crashed out in total humiliation in bottom place. What got us into the the NL, and kept us there for two seasons? A shit load of money, or a decent manager? What got us out of the NL in style the following season? A shit load of money or a decent manager? Brilliant post, especially for those who bang on about new investment and new owners. The fact we did so well in NL as PT shows why I am still disappointed that the FT squad here in NLS isn't vying for No1 slot like it should be, and still feel like we are overpaying on wages for the NLS fayre we are getting on the pitch. So, our 3 in 4 and two good NL seasons were all about the team management getting in the right players and getting the best out of them, and those team managers being supported in that by the owners...………...only when the latter was lost did it all come crashing down. I think now we have the latter and the former is at @75% with room for improvement...……….hence being on the edge of the play offs, but with a FT wage bill. It is what it is.
|
|
|
Post by sword65 on Feb 11, 2020 14:30:28 GMT
I am afraid that I am one of those people who believe that players should not be paid anything other than travel expenses at this level of football and the more clubs pay them the greedier they get. Professional football and professional wages should be for the elite 92 clubs . If a player at this level is good enough to be picked for an EFL or Prem league team then he can fleece them for as much as he wants but if he is not good enough he should take a regular job . This would not only stop non-league clubs going to the wall but the money earned through sponsorship and gate receipts could be more wisely spent on ground improvements for the supporters. This should apply to all Non-league clubs and would therefore level the playing field so to speak. I would though employ some kind of win bonus to keep the players interested, a small payment after 5,10,15,20,25 wins and perhaps an end of season bonus if they win the league an/or get promoted. I do not expect anyone on this board to agree with me but it will not change my opinion.
|
|
|
Post by royalstone on Feb 11, 2020 14:58:49 GMT
I am afraid that I am one of those people who believe that players should not be paid anything other than travel expenses at this level of football and the more clubs pay them the greedier they get. Professional football and professional wages should be for the elite 92 clubs . If a player at this level is good enough to be picked for an EFL or Prem league team then he can fleece them for as much as he wants but if he is not good enough he should take a regular job . This would not only stop non-league clubs going to the wall but the money earned through sponsorship and gate receipts could be more wisely spent on ground improvements for the supporters. This should apply to all Non-league clubs and would therefore level the playing field so to speak. I would though employ some kind of win bonus to keep the players interested, a small payment after 5,10,15,20,25 wins and perhaps an end of season bonus if they win the league an/or get promoted. I do not expect anyone on this board to agree with me but it will not change my opinion. I have some sympathy with this view, the trouble is history suggests trying to enforce amateur sport is hard. Clubs will always find a way of cheating the system. How 'amateur' was athletics when it was supposed to be?
|
|
|
Post by sword65 on Feb 11, 2020 15:17:36 GMT
I am afraid that I am one of those people who believe that players should not be paid anything other than travel expenses at this level of football and the more clubs pay them the greedier they get. Professional football and professional wages should be for the elite 92 clubs . If a player at this level is good enough to be picked for an EFL or Prem league team then he can fleece them for as much as he wants but if he is not good enough he should take a regular job . This would not only stop non-league clubs going to the wall but the money earned through sponsorship and gate receipts could be more wisely spent on ground improvements for the supporters. This should apply to all Non-league clubs and would therefore level the playing field so to speak. I would though employ some kind of win bonus to keep the players interested, a small payment after 5,10,15,20,25 wins and perhaps an end of season bonus if they win the league an/or get promoted. I do not expect anyone on this board to agree with me but it will not change my opinion. I have some sympathy with this view, the trouble is history suggests trying to enforce amateur sport is hard. Clubs will always find a way of cheating the system. How 'amateur' was athletics when it was supposed to be? Perhaps players can be individually sponsored by local companies to top up their earnings just like snooker players who are up and coming. Maybe another way is for a club to say that the players will share , I dont know let's say 25% of the gate money. This would encourage the players to play well as the higher the gates the bigger the share. Let's use Saturdays attendance as an example,using round figures a gate of 1900 @ £10= £19,000. At 25% this would give the squad £4.750 to share equally. Therefore a squad of 20 players would get around £240 each to top up their normal wages from work.
|
|
|
Post by daveu on Feb 11, 2020 17:22:19 GMT
I am afraid that I am one of those people who believe that players should not be paid anything other than travel expenses at this level of football and the more clubs pay them the greedier they get. Professional football and professional wages should be for the elite 92 clubs . If a player at this level is good enough to be picked for an EFL or Prem league team then he can fleece them for as much as he wants but if he is not good enough he should take a regular job . This would not only stop non-league clubs going to the wall but the money earned through sponsorship and gate receipts could be more wisely spent on ground improvements for the supporters. This should apply to all Non-league clubs and would therefore level the playing field so to speak. I would though employ some kind of win bonus to keep the players interested, a small payment after 5,10,15,20,25 wins and perhaps an end of season bonus if they win the league an/or get promoted. I do not expect anyone on this board to agree with me but it will not change my opinion. You couldn't really expect players to do daytime training if you don't pay them. A couple of evenings a week doesn't affect their ability to have other employment, daytime training severely restricts their options. On top of that, as someone else said, the moneybags clubs would find ways around it. I don't think there's ever been such a thing as a level playing field anyway, so trying to enforce amateurism to achieve it probably won't work. You can be idealistic or realistic but the two seldom go together.
|
|
|
Post by Bernie on Feb 11, 2020 17:35:59 GMT
There is a reason why Liverpool are top of the Premier League and we have an existence bouncing around the non leagues. More supporters equals money for better players equals more money.
|
|
|
Post by sword65 on Feb 11, 2020 17:40:37 GMT
There is a reason why Liverpool are top of the Premier League and we have an existence bouncing around the non leagues. More supporters equals money for better players equals more money. I very much doubt the gate receipts at Anfield cover even 30%of their overall wage bill. Their money comes from sponsorship and tv money.
|
|
|
Post by sword65 on Feb 11, 2020 17:52:44 GMT
I am afraid that I am one of those people who believe that players should not be paid anything other than travel expenses at this level of football and the more clubs pay them the greedier they get. Professional football and professional wages should be for the elite 92 clubs . If a player at this level is good enough to be picked for an EFL or Prem league team then he can fleece them for as much as he wants but if he is not good enough he should take a regular job . This would not only stop non-league clubs going to the wall but the money earned through sponsorship and gate receipts could be more wisely spent on ground improvements for the supporters. This should apply to all Non-league clubs and would therefore level the playing field so to speak. I would though employ some kind of win bonus to keep the players interested, a small payment after 5,10,15,20,25 wins and perhaps an end of season bonus if they win the league an/or get promoted. I do not expect anyone on this board to agree with me but it will not change my opinion. You couldn't really expect players to do daytime training if you don't pay them. A couple of evenings a week doesn't affect their ability to have other employment, daytime training severely restricts their options. On top of that, as someone else said, the moneybags clubs would find ways around it. I don't think there's ever been such a thing as a level playing field anyway, so trying to enforce amateurism to achieve it probably won't work. You can be idealistic or realistic but the two seldom go together. You are doubtlessly right Dave but I think I am guilty of caring about non-league in general not just the Stones. Just look how many AFC clubs have sprouted in the last 10-15 years because of poor financial management and player/management greed. How many clubs are on the HMRC hit list just waiting for the executioners call. It has to be stopped somehow before it's too late.
|
|