|
Post by shamstone on Dec 30, 2019 12:02:46 GMT
Oh Oh
|
|
|
Post by Bernie on Dec 30, 2019 12:42:43 GMT
According to the official site, these are our remaining home games.
The only one I would consider segregating is Wealdstone, which could be a title/play off decider.
There is no justification for making anyone buy a ticket in advance, unless it helps congestion and a discount is involved. Which is unlikely given the cost of administering tickets.
I don't think any of these clubs segregate us. What is different about the Gallagher that we can't manage a modest non league crowd?
Tonbridge.
Hemel Hempstead (evening).
Dartford (evening).
Oxford.
Braintree.
Hampton & Richmond.
Welling.
Hungerford.
Dartford.
Concord.
Wealdstone.
|
|
|
Post by yorkshirestone on Dec 30, 2019 12:55:23 GMT
For some reason my machine isn't allowing me to quote barney's point about the Police having to be there and charging the club accordingly. Possibly the only good thing that Ken Bates achieved during his dictatorship at Leeds was winning a legal challenge against West Yorkshire Police about policing costs. Following that legal landmark, policing at Elland Road has changed dramatically with very few police in the stadium (for which the club does pay) but outside the ground very very few for any length of time, because the club doesn't have to pay for those outside the stadium. If a police presence is not required inside the Gallagher (that would be backed up by a risk assessment with statistical analysis and documented issues with the visiting club) the club should decline the presence of the Police but state that if the Police wish to be present, they can attend and wait outside. Leeds United this season have crowds of roughly 35,500 as an average. A police officer is barely ever seen in the stadium. They do however maintain a group nearby just in case, but that's at the cost to the Chief Constable and they are only ever seen on the very rare occasion that there is trouble. Birmingham fans kicked off inside the ground a few weeks ago, just a bit of jeering and trying to get onto the pitch but nonetheless the worst violence I've seen in the ground in 20+ years. In this clip filmed at the height of the problems (long after the final whistle) the number of police present is in single figures. www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRFViU0ZVmQ
|
|
|
Post by sword65 on Dec 30, 2019 13:30:26 GMT
According to the official site, these are our remaining home games. The only one I would consider segregating is Wealdstone, which could be a title/play off decider. There is no justification for making anyone buy a ticket in advance, unless it helps congestion and a discount is involved. Which is unlikely given the cost of administering tickets. I don't think any of these clubs segregate us. What is different about the Gallagher that we can't manage a modest non league crowd? Tonbridge. Hemel Hempstead (evening). Dartford (evening). Oxford. Braintree. Hampton & Richmond. Welling. Hungerford. Dartford. Concord. Wealdstone. We were not segregated at Wealdstone and I don't remember their being a problem. The only trouble we have had with them in recent years was the opener a couple of years back but I dont believe they were true Wealdstone fans but Prem and championship fans on a jolley because their own team weren't playing.
|
|
|
Post by Dan on Dec 30, 2019 13:50:18 GMT
Such a shame this segregation has become ott, just because of a small number of supporters in a handful of clubs. Over 200 DH fans, everybody as good as gold. Such a pity we are stopped from mixing/socialising and enjoying the non league experience. Current segregation policy applied to every visiting club can't be right.
|
|
|
Post by jdl on Dec 30, 2019 14:50:32 GMT
Keep it segregated as we shouldn’t put any strain on the visiting fans sanity with fruit loops like JDL and armchair MP’s now like NWS on the loose. Fruitloop? What a wonderfully archaic term! I was just coming round to the possibility that mrplow was Ant (yet again), but that scuppers that idea, as Ant would have known it was one word. Ah well, back to the drawing board...
|
|
|
Post by jdl on Dec 30, 2019 15:16:35 GMT
Such a shame this segregation has become ott, just because of a small number of supporters in a handful of clubs. Over 200 DH fans, everybody as good as gold. Such a pity we are stopped from mixing/socialising and enjoying the non league experience. Current segregation policy applied to every visiting club can't be right. This whole nonsense is quite easily resolved. After all, most clubs at this level are not generally segregated, and how often is there any trouble? OK, so a very few visiting fans have a bit of history, so keep segregation as a fallback, but in most cases it shouldn't be needed. Each match should be assessed individually, between the club and the police, with the default being no segregation. It's fairly easy to asses the risk, after all - history (if any) between fans, reputation of visiting fans, expected number of visitors, relevance of the game to both clubs, etc. A simple 5 minute tick list should be enough in 90% of games. Also, this is not the black and white, binary, situation it's always portrayed as. For instance, there are visiting teams where no trouble would normally be expected, but it could break out, and if it happens in the wrong place, or the away fans are there in numbers, it could get nasty. But even then, there is no justification for full-on segregation. Intelligent stewarding/policing is the key - spot the trouble before if starts and diffuse it. And have a plan B, so that it's easily contained if it does happen. For instance, we keep the 'away end' and separate standing for convenience, but don't actually segregate in the ground. Then, if trouble does break out, most away fans will still be in the away area and can easily be contained/protected, while the stewards/police only have to deal with a few trouble makers. There's a problem with this when fans change ends at halftime, of course, but, given the superior view from the EE, many/most will stay there, and part of the TE could be designated as a second 'away end'. This wouldn't be a hard and fast policy, enforced by stewards, but would just be an arrangement everyone was aware of, so that home fans in that part of the TE would know what was likely to happen after halftime, and the bulk of away fans would know where they could congregate. Subtle and intelligent planning like this would mean that what little trouble we might get could be easily resolved, but for the majority of games, fans could mingle and chat as much (or as little) as they wanted. And, of course, should we get a game where numbers or history dictate that segregation IS the solution, the infrastructure would still be there to put it into place.
|
|
|
Post by sword65 on Dec 30, 2019 15:26:06 GMT
I do think there should be segregation for Tonbridge on New Years Day with the Stones fans inside and the Mangles fans outside the ground. f**k 'em
|
|
|
Post by jdl on Dec 30, 2019 15:41:18 GMT
Or, in a lot fewer words - segregation at almost any NS game is crazy. It costs us money, it spoils the day out for the visitors, and it creates the very atmosphere of 'them and us' that leads to the need for segregation.
I watched many a game at the old ground, standing next to away supporters and chatting with them. And, in the early days at JWW, there would often be away fans next to us in the TE. There was never any trouble, and often the game would be more memorable for the chat with fans and the friendships formed, than for the football or result.
And away games were always special for the same reason. Cambridge and Sheffield were nightmares in comparison. I have good memories of visiting grounds like DH and Sutton and many others, often even though we lost. But I am very unlikely to return to places like Fleet and Dover.
Obviously, we want visitors to leave JWW having seen their team lose, but, ideally, we also want them to leave having enjoyed the day and wanting to come back. And this is not just the mythical 'non-league way', it's also good business sense.
And segregation frequently has the exact opposite effect.
|
|
|
Post by daveu on Dec 30, 2019 15:53:43 GMT
How many more times. It's not the club's choice it's down to the local authority and the police. And it's not just visiting fans that are the problem. We have our fair share of bellends who can't be trusted to behave like civilised human beings. If you want an end to segregation let's out these morons and get them banned, then we might have a chance of convincing Mr Plod that it's not necessary.
|
|
|
Post by Bernie on Dec 30, 2019 16:58:23 GMT
Are you sure? Bill said it was the club's decision, after a meeting with "key safety partners". I've never heard anyone claim the police were forcing the club's hand on this. Bill was happy to take the credit/blame. www.kentonline.co.uk/maidstone/sport/segregation-returns-209900/www.maidstoneunited.co.uk/2019/08/bills-bulletin-safety-in-numbers/Where I would agree with you is banning the idiots. Some were allowed to return after being ejected at the Ebbsfleet game. But even then, the underlying problem was overcrowding in the away end, caused by bad planning of unnecessary segregation. If the gate to the rest of the ground had been open, it wouldn't have happened.
|
|
|
Post by Bernie on Dec 30, 2019 17:26:00 GMT
We were not segregated at Wealdstone and I don't remember their being a problem. The only trouble we have had with them in recent years was the opener a couple of years back but I dont believe they were true Wealdstone fans but Prem and championship fans on a jolley because their own team weren't playing. I'm not saying you're wrong, but Wealdstone in a crucial promotion game is one that would have to be considered very carefully. maidstoneunitedfc.proboards.com/thread/2163/segregation
|
|
|
Post by sword65 on Dec 30, 2019 17:29:54 GMT
We were not segregated at Wealdstone and I don't remember their being a problem. The only trouble we have had with them in recent years was the opener a couple of years back but I dont believe they were true Wealdstone fans but Prem and championship fans on a jolley because their own team weren't playing. I'm not saying you're wrong, but Wealdstone in a crucial promotion game is one that would have to be considered very carefully. maidstoneunitedfc.proboards.com/thread/2163/segregationAgreed!
|
|
|
Post by rollingstone on Dec 30, 2019 18:07:31 GMT
According to the official site, these are our remaining home games. The only one I would consider segregating is Wealdstone, which could be a title/play off decider. There is no justification for making anyone buy a ticket in advance, unless it helps congestion and a discount is involved. Which is unlikely given the cost of administering tickets. I don't think any of these clubs segregate us. What is different about the Gallagher that we can't manage a modest non league crowd? Tonbridge. Hemel Hempstead (evening). Dartford (evening). Oxford. Braintree. Hampton & Richmond. Welling. Hungerford. Dartford. Concord. Wealdstone. Wasn't there somthing from the Tonbridge boxing day away game that never was, saying that the match was going to be segregated?
|
|
|
Post by sword65 on Dec 30, 2019 18:16:00 GMT
According to the official site, these are our remaining home games. The only one I would consider segregating is Wealdstone, which could be a title/play off decider. There is no justification for making anyone buy a ticket in advance, unless it helps congestion and a discount is involved. Which is unlikely given the cost of administering tickets. I don't think any of these clubs segregate us. What is different about the Gallagher that we can't manage a modest non league crowd? Tonbridge. Hemel Hempstead (evening). Dartford (evening). Oxford. Braintree. Hampton & Richmond. Welling. Hungerford. Dartford. Concord. Wealdstone. Wasn't there somthing from the Tonbridge boxing day away game that never was, saying that the match was going to be segregated? Yes sir, the match was due to be segregated on the advice of the police ,Tonbridge to the best of my knowledge, did not want this or the early kick off. Police also told the Royal Oak,the nearest pub to the ground , not to open but this was not a problem as they dont open Boxingday anyway. Incidentally I have spoken to a club official who informed me that 80% of the ground was playable but 20% had the local Chinese population sowing rice on ot.
|
|