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Post by jdl on Aug 7, 2019 22:47:45 GMT
Interesting parallel: we shouldn't complain about the team after two games, but the club immediately reinstates segregation after just one.
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Post by jdh80 on Aug 8, 2019 3:29:47 GMT
A reminder of what I wrote in IAGA in early 2016:- SEGREGATION An unfortunate fact of life as we move higher, on the face of it, but I can’t help wondering if it is really necessary except in the most exceptional of circumstances. My point is, stick fans in cages, especially those who are not used to it, and it encourages less good behaviour. Let me explain further, put distance and/or barriers between people and they feel much safer abusing those on the other side, they can’t be got at you see. All our would be badly behaved away fan needs to do is escape too much attention from the stewards, and his (it’s usually a he) day out is complete, free to hurl mindless abuse, probably as an escape from an inadequate existence. Would the same man hurl the same abuse if the people they were shouting at were actually standing next to them, within touching distance? It’s not impossible of course, that’s where good alert stewarding comes in, but it is, based on experience, a lot more unlikely. Of course, when we play a team from the Football League, especially one like Yeovil who had even briefly been in the Championship, then segregation should be assumed and only lifted if there is very good reason not to have it (e.g. Stevenage). I don’t think many of the travelling Yeovil fans remember their non-league days too well, and certainly not enough to remember what is acceptable in an unsegregated stadium, unlike say an Ebbsfleet, Margate or a Wealdstone. The mention of who brings me quite neatly on to one of the weirder decisions this season. I fully understand why a game against Wealdstone might be segregated on a Saturday, when a large crowd and a reasonable away following might be expected, and there is a little, shall we say “history”, but on a windy shitty Tuesday night when only a few diehard away fans could be expected to turn up. Really? If the club is worried about congestion at the better attended matches, then perhaps a decently stewarded but loose “Home Fans Only” policy for the Town End would be a better and more non confrontational policy. Not having an ”away end” would mean that “all ticket” would only need to be used when the whole ground is expected to fill, not just when the away end is predicted to reach capacity. It would need to be well publicised to the away team beforehand, but given the away clubs co-operation it would be well worth a try. I wrote in the last IAGA about the trust placed in us by Dartford last November and it will be a huge shame for all of us if this cannot be repaid. It would be an even bigger shame, in fact a huge travesty, if Dulwich gain promotion and the club felt the misguided need to pen their magnificent fans in to one corner of the ground. It’s not what non-league football is about. No segregation at Welling on Tuesday with Stones fans all over the ground in numbers...……...no problems at all, just good spirits and peaceful co-existence. It is indeed what non-league football is all about. Moley is spot on. Lets only segregate when its really needed. [] The problem with segregation is you're damned if you do and damned if you don't, you either segregate and know that there might be issues with items thrown across the segregation area or you don't segregate and hope you can trust ALL the fans that attend that they can behave accordingly, but if a major incident happens everyone will be up in arms why didn't we have segregation. Now yes the incidents on Saturday only involved away fans with one seeming to go by very peacefully when the fan was refused service in the bar and willingly left the bar when asked by security, the other one where the fan entered the field of play who was being ejected or man handled by our security depending on if you witnessed it or heard about it second hand and the extended part when his fellow fans tried to stop him from being thrown out which again the views differ as to first or second hand accounts of what happened. Where we get such high attendances the risk of having a mindless idiot increases ten fold, i mean look our fans at welling we had a prick who thought it clever to throw a drink onto the pitch in the second half landing near the penalty spot, if that were a home game then that 1 idiot gives the club a problem, do they ban drinking on the terraces or do they allow it to continue until there is a major incident. Or they could have a third option where they ban the fan who threw the drink, they have cameras on the areas where fans are so would be able to pick them out, or the could name and shame the fan by posting a picture of them throwing the drink and say this is the person responsible for the rest of you not being able to drink pitchside any more. The problem is everything is reliant on the behaviour of the fans one dickhead can and will ruin things for the rest of us, part of which has already happened with the full segregation now being enforced.
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Post by stainese on Aug 8, 2019 6:14:29 GMT
On a wet freezing night in January The Concord fan could be very lonely with segregation.
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Post by jdl on Aug 8, 2019 9:43:14 GMT
Whatever the pros and cons of segregation in general, I think it's pretty obvious to all that the club (or police?) have overreacted.
The facts remain that, at this level, segregation is rarely needed. We didn't have it in the Conference back in the 80s, when fan violence was a real problem, and we didn't have it when we were last in the NS.
It spoils the non-league football experience, it tends to create the very problems it is supposed to avoid, and it costs money we can ill afford. In almost all cases of supporter trouble, it can be dealt with on the spot by stewards/security.
Steps can also be taken to prevent it to start with. People who have had too much to drink shouldn't be admitted, and anyone clearly pissed can be refused drink (I think this is actually the licencecee's obligation?) and ejected. Intelligent stewarding can also be used to spot trouble before it starts.
We are now facing a season of decent fans like DH being treated as hooligans (and not like we are are their place) and tiny numbers of away fans from the smaller clubs being marshalled onto empty terraces like they were criminals. Anyone who's been away to Dover knows where this sort of overreaction leeds. This is NOT what non-league football is about and we should not accept this ridiculous knee-jerk reaction from the club.
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Post by daveu on Aug 8, 2019 13:07:55 GMT
Whatever the pros and cons of segregation in general, I think it's pretty obvious to all that the club (or police?) have overreacted. The facts remain that, at this level, segregation is rarely needed. We didn't have it in the Conference back in the 80s, when fan violence was a real problem, and we didn't have it when we were last in the NS. It spoils the non-league football experience, it tends to create the very problems it is supposed to avoid, and it costs money we can ill afford. In almost all cases of supporter trouble, it can be dealt with on the spot by stewards/security. Steps can also be taken to prevent it to start with. People who have had too much to drink shouldn't be admitted, and anyone clearly pissed can be refused drink (I think this is actually the licencecee's obligation?) and ejected. Intelligent stewarding can also be used to spot trouble before it starts. We are now facing a season of decent fans like DH being treated as hooligans (and not like we are are their place) and tiny numbers of away fans from the smaller clubs being marshalled onto empty terraces like they were criminals. Anyone who's been away to Dover knows where this sort of overreaction leeds. This is NOT what non-league football is about and we should not accept this ridiculous knee-jerk reaction from the club. Seem to remember a few times when Dulwich have visited it was our fans causing trouble, not theirs, or are we conveniently forgetting the homophobic chanting of a few morons. If we have an element that can't behave, and some visiting clubs have a few, then I'm afraid segregation is inevitable. Let's be honest, there hasn't been a season since we returned home that there hasn't been at least a couple of incidents. Wealdstone, Tonbridge, Margate, Woking and Dover spring to mind (I'm sure there are a few others), and both home and away fans have been involved at times.
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Post by Better things to do in life on Aug 8, 2019 13:41:31 GMT
No segregation at Welling on Tuesday with Stones fans all over the ground in numbers...……...no problems at all, just good spirits and peaceful co-existence. It is indeed what non-league football is all about. Moley is spot on. Lets only segregate when its really needed. [] The problem with segregation is you're damned if you do and damned if you don't, you either segregate and know that there might be issues with items thrown across the segregation area or you don't segregate and hope you can trust ALL the fans that attend that they can behave accordingly, but if a major incident happens everyone will be up in arms why didn't we have segregation. Now yes the incidents on Saturday only involved away fans with one seeming to go by very peacefully when the fan was refused service in the bar and willingly left the bar when asked by security, the other one where the fan entered the field of play who was being ejected or man handled by our security depending on if you witnessed it or heard about it second hand and the extended part when his fellow fans tried to stop him from being thrown out which again the views differ as to first or second hand accounts of what happened. Where we get such high attendances the risk of having a mindless idiot increases ten fold, i mean look our fans at welling we had a prick who thought it clever to throw a drink onto the pitch in the second half landing near the penalty spot, if that were a home game then that 1 idiot gives the club a problem, do they ban drinking on the terraces or do they allow it to continue until there is a major incident. Or they could have a third option where they ban the fan who threw the drink, they have cameras on the areas where fans are so would be able to pick them out, or the could name and shame the fan by posting a picture of them throwing the drink and say this is the person responsible for the rest of you not being able to drink pitchside any more. The problem is everything is reliant on the behaviour of the fans one dickhead can and will ruin things for the rest of us, part of which has already happened with the full segregation now being enforced. Yes, some numpty threw a plastic cup with a little bit of beer onto the pitch at Welling. That hardly warrants segregation or banning of beer sales - lets get real - its a flimsy PLASTIC cup and even full of beer its not going to kill or paralyse anyone.
Not saying that's at all right, as I was disgusted when I saw the drunken lout do that, and by all means deal with that stupid individual and ban him from the bars at home and maybe completely from all away matches (can you actually do that?), but don't punish everyone for his brief, and harmless, act of stupidity. Common sense needs to prevail. Segregate for games that need it, not every game.
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Post by sword65 on Aug 8, 2019 14:31:46 GMT
[] The problem with segregation is you're damned if you do and damned if you don't, you either segregate and know that there might be issues with items thrown across the segregation area or you don't segregate and hope you can trust ALL the fans that attend that they can behave accordingly, but if a major incident happens everyone will be up in arms why didn't we have segregation. Now yes the incidents on Saturday only involved away fans with one seeming to go by very peacefully when the fan was refused service in the bar and willingly left the bar when asked by security, the other one where the fan entered the field of play who was being ejected or man handled by our security depending on if you witnessed it or heard about it second hand and the extended part when his fellow fans tried to stop him from being thrown out which again the views differ as to first or second hand accounts of what happened. Where we get such high attendances the risk of having a mindless idiot increases ten fold, i mean look our fans at welling we had a prick who thought it clever to throw a drink onto the pitch in the second half landing near the penalty spot, if that were a home game then that 1 idiot gives the club a problem, do they ban drinking on the terraces or do they allow it to continue until there is a major incident. Or they could have a third option where they ban the fan who threw the drink, they have cameras on the areas where fans are so would be able to pick them out, or the could name and shame the fan by posting a picture of them throwing the drink and say this is the person responsible for the rest of you not being able to drink pitchside any more. The problem is everything is reliant on the behaviour of the fans one dickhead can and will ruin things for the rest of us, part of which has already happened with the full segregation now being enforced. Yes, some numpty threw a plastic cup with a little bit of beer onto the pitch at Welling. That hardly warrants segregation or banning of beer sales - lets get real - its a flimsy PLASTIC cup and even full of beer its not going to kill or paralyse anyone.
Not saying that's at all right, as I was disgusted when I saw the drunken lout do that, and by all means deal with that stupid individual and ban him from the bars at home and maybe completely from all away matches (can you actually do that?), but don't punish everyone for his brief, and harmless, act of stupidity. Common sense needs to prevail. Segregate for games that need it, not every game.
I remember Stafford Rangers away many years ago when our esteemed chairman of the supporters club Alan Goodrich reported the Stafford fans for throwing plastic cups at us. The problem is Alan was such a nice man he didn't want to offend anyone at Stafford by telling the truth that we were bombarded by stones and bricks that f**king hurt and when we scored a last minute winner they charged us and we were forced to defend ourselves by ripping pieces of wood and metal off of the back of the stand all this whilst the police stood their laughing their bollocks off,in fact when I asked one for help he just laughed and told me I was big enough to look after myself. Luckily we escaped with no real damage done or injuries. Makes Weymouth look a bit pathetic really.
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Post by steveh21 on Aug 8, 2019 15:01:03 GMT
Are we seriously going to segregate for Dorking? They took 12 fans away to Tonbridge last season the week after winning Ryman Prem. To segregate v Dulwich would be a real shame.
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Post by Better things to do in life on Aug 8, 2019 15:56:47 GMT
Yes, some numpty threw a plastic cup with a little bit of beer onto the pitch at Welling. That hardly warrants segregation or banning of beer sales - lets get real - its a flimsy PLASTIC cup and even full of beer its not going to kill or paralyse anyone.
Not saying that's at all right, as I was disgusted when I saw the drunken lout do that, and by all means deal with that stupid individual and ban him from the bars at home and maybe completely from all away matches (can you actually do that?), but don't punish everyone for his brief, and harmless, act of stupidity. Common sense needs to prevail. Segregate for games that need it, not every game.
I remember Stafford Rangers away many years ago when our esteemed chairman of the supporters club Alan Goodrich reported the Stafford fans for throwing plastic cups at us. The problem is Alan was such a nice man he didn't want to offend anyone at Stafford by telling the truth that we were bombarded by stones and bricks that f**king hurt and when we scored a last minute winner they charged us and we were forced to defend ourselves by ripping pieces of wood and metal off of the back of the stand all this whilst the police stood their laughing their bollocks off,in fact when I asked one for help he just laughed and told me I was big enough to look after myself. Luckily we escaped with no real damage done or injuries. Makes Weymouth look a bit pathetic really. Indeed - Back in the day I remember a fencing stake coming through the window of the MUFC supporters coach at Gravesend, having to sprint for the same coach at Wealdstone with razor blade sharpened motorbike chains whipping around our heels and having a knife drawn on me by a ten year old (With his teenage brother egging him on) at Plough Lane when playing Wimbledon. Thank God those days are over. Todays hysteria at a few Weymouth drunkards not being quite gentlemanly in their drunkenness just doesn't come close! Segregate when its needed, but the thought of being squashed up in the Genco with half the stand given over to a dozen Dorking or Concord diehards is just nuts.
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Post by shamstone on Aug 8, 2019 16:26:29 GMT
Personally I think the fans themselves are better stopping it. The stewards/security and old bill just seem to make it worse. If your mates pissed up it’s easier to control than some stranger. In my experience anyway. Just saying...
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Post by jakeyboi on Aug 8, 2019 16:59:23 GMT
You can gain a reputation in a heartbeat an sadly our younger fans have done just that, it takes an age to try an lose that reputation an sadly we will struggle to lose our reputation, the younger fans are easily provoked an sometimes even start the troubles, sadly lots think they are followers of some high flying ultras, rather than little old Maidstone United from the lower ranks of English Football.
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Post by jdl on Aug 8, 2019 18:07:27 GMT
Yes, some numpty threw a plastic cup with a little bit of beer onto the pitch at Welling. That hardly warrants segregation or banning of beer sales - lets get real - its a flimsy PLASTIC cup and even full of beer its not going to kill or paralyse anyone.
Not saying that's at all right, as I was disgusted when I saw the drunken lout do that, and by all means deal with that stupid individual and ban him from the bars at home and maybe completely from all away matches (can you actually do that?), but don't punish everyone for his brief, and harmless, act of stupidity. Common sense needs to prevail. Segregate for games that need it, not every game.
I remember Stafford Rangers away many years ago when our esteemed chairman of the supporters club Alan Goodrich reported the Stafford fans for throwing plastic cups at us. The problem is Alan was such a nice man he didn't want to offend anyone at Stafford by telling the truth that we were bombarded by stones and bricks that f**king hurt and when we scored a last minute winner they charged us and we were forced to defend ourselves by ripping pieces of wood and metal off of the back of the stand all this whilst the police stood their laughing their bollocks off,in fact when I asked one for help he just laughed and told me I was big enough to look after myself. Luckily we escaped with no real damage done or injuries. Makes Weymouth look a bit pathetic really. Odd that you seem to go to so many games where trouble just happen to break out. Pure coincidence, of course...
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Post by pedant on Aug 8, 2019 18:28:55 GMT
I remember Stafford Rangers away many years ago when our esteemed chairman of the supporters club Alan Goodrich reported the Stafford fans for throwing plastic cups at us. The problem is Alan was such a nice man he didn't want to offend anyone at Stafford by telling the truth that we were bombarded by stones and bricks that f**king hurt and when we scored a last minute winner they charged us and we were forced to defend ourselves by ripping pieces of wood and metal off of the back of the stand all this whilst the police stood their laughing their bollocks off,in fact when I asked one for help he just laughed and told me I was big enough to look after myself. Luckily we escaped with no real damage done or injuries. Makes Weymouth look a bit pathetic really. Odd that you seem to go to so many games where trouble just happen to break out. Pure coincidence, of course... That's what supporters generally do, go to the games.
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Post by sword65 on Aug 8, 2019 18:59:46 GMT
I remember Stafford Rangers away many years ago when our esteemed chairman of the supporters club Alan Goodrich reported the Stafford fans for throwing plastic cups at us. The problem is Alan was such a nice man he didn't want to offend anyone at Stafford by telling the truth that we were bombarded by stones and bricks that f**king hurt and when we scored a last minute winner they charged us and we were forced to defend ourselves by ripping pieces of wood and metal off of the back of the stand all this whilst the police stood their laughing their bollocks off,in fact when I asked one for help he just laughed and told me I was big enough to look after myself. Luckily we escaped with no real damage done or injuries. Makes Weymouth look a bit pathetic really. Odd that you seem to go to so many games where trouble just happen to break out. Pure coincidence, of course... Absolutely😇😇😇
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Post by northstandupper on Aug 8, 2019 21:22:35 GMT
You can gain a reputation in a heartbeat an sadly our younger fans have done just that, it takes an age to try an lose that reputation an sadly we will struggle to lose our reputation, the younger fans are easily provoked an sometimes even start the troubles, sadly lots think they are followers of some high flying ultras, rather than little old Maidstone United from the lower ranks of English Football. I totally agree. I find there loud chanting a near disgrace, I feel it has a very negative impact on the team. Without them the ground would sound near enough like a graveyard, how much would us golden boys in the main stand love that! Peace and quiet ay! As for the swearing and banging around to make an atmosphere well I think the club need to take severe action! I feel like I am walking into the Den not the bloody Gallagher! (The Den is Millwalls stadium, I know most of you would shudder with fear and not touch it with a 15 foot barge pole due to the animal like hooligans)
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