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Post by sword65 on Jan 21, 2019 16:11:08 GMT
Every club has its natural level. NL feels right for us, or possibly above, but the complicating factor is the sustainable business model. This means, quite obviously, that the club is at a disadvantage to others that have sugar daddies with no real interest in sustainability and also league clubs falling down a division who have the infrastructure that means investment in the ground, etc. is minimal, whereas we still have much to do in terms of the ground compared to others. It all means, I think, that NL and NS is the foreseeable future. In the longer term I think that the Club's natural level would be at least L2. Maidstone has a much larger population than Morecambe, Accrington, Cheltenham, Crawley etc. & is similar in size the places like Colchester for example. This season and next will be a blip in the process of becoming a League Club. Time to get real, its not gonna happen for many,many years and you forget 3G is not allowed in the EFL and isn't likely to be soon and so if we did get promotion we would be relegated 2 divs anyway. Accept what we have, accept what we are or face being disappointed for the foreseeable future.
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Post by Better things to do in life on Jan 21, 2019 16:16:24 GMT
Absolutely! Now that was an exciting team with some Stones legends in it that we loved and could get behind. That's where we need to get back to. Much as that was one of our best sides in the NL, I am not sure that it would prosper now. By the time they left, both Pigott and Hines we increasingly marginalised by the robust defending we see every game and they were getting fewer and fewer chances. Even in the last two seasons, the league has moved on, if not necessarily upwards, with bigger/ever more savvy players who are rarely pretty to watch. Of the defenders, maybe Mills would have been able to stand the pace now but even Seth had his off days before he left, while neither of the centre backs is exactly prospering now. We may not have done the best deals in the last year or so (WDH, Phillips and Turgott excepted), but we have also suffered from just how much further other sides have moved on in the same time. The more I think about it, NLS is starting to seem more attractive each game that goes by. Trouble is, paying to see the same old mediocrity from now to the end of the season is not at all attractive, not least because even the visiting sides offer so little as well. I didn't LITERALLY mean those actual players for now, I was just making the point that a plucky semipro team with our business model can hold its own at mid table in NL, although I take your point that NL has moved on and got tougher since then, probably due to the number of large EFL clubs that keep falling through the trap door, like Tranmere last year and now Chesterfield, no to mention Wrexham, Hartlepool etc. So, NLS for us it is - for now anyway. Whos Gan Hemel?
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Post by pedant on Jan 21, 2019 16:32:12 GMT
John Still & Chris Kinnear were at the Maidenhead game so surely they must be in the running. Think their running days are over. Mine certainly are and they're older than I am.
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Post by pedant on Jan 21, 2019 16:34:51 GMT
The impression I got was that as a club as we are with the money and business plan we have its either dominate the National South or struggle in the National premier! Anything above that would take a very good manager and a load of luck. League football is a distant fantasy. Staying up this year is equally so! He's been reading my posts! Must be a good day for you then? Thinking someone reads your posts!
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Post by pedant on Jan 21, 2019 16:51:07 GMT
I guess the club are still paying the directors loans that we needed for the ground improvements. Is this right? So once they are paid, the club should have more "disposable" income? You're probably correct.
However, and I'm no expert on this area, I think the 'director's loans' aren't getting paid back very quickly. I believe currently not much more than interest on the loans. If that's anywhere near correct it's a long wait until those funds become disposable.
Worth noting, and appreciating, that that's a long wait both for the club to have those funds available and for Terry and Oliver to have their money available to them as well.
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Post by Nick on Jan 21, 2019 16:59:59 GMT
You say "not much more than interest on the loans"
Are you sure ?
I understood the loans were interest free, but perhaps not.
As for getting their money back, I would have thought that will only happen when they sell some equity in the club.
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Post by sword65 on Jan 21, 2019 17:23:29 GMT
You say "not much more than interest on the loans" Are you sure ? I understood the loans were interest free, but perhaps not. As for getting their money back, I would have thought that will only happen when they sell some equity in the club. People that invest in football especially et this level very rarely get there money back T&O are owed upwards of £3-4 million so any new owner would likely have to stump up that money first before he even invests in the club's future. Not very likely is it!
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Post by pedant on Jan 21, 2019 17:24:05 GMT
You say "not much more than interest on the loans" Are you sure ? I understood the loans were interest free, but perhaps not. As for getting their money back, I would have thought that will only happen when they sell some equity in the club. No I'm not sure of any of it.
Thought I'd used enough woolly words to make that clear
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Post by Bernie on Jan 21, 2019 18:38:49 GMT
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Post by russc on Jan 21, 2019 19:19:44 GMT
Wrong company. Directors loans are handled through the holding company that effectively owns Maidstone United Football Club Ltd (the one you linked to) and Maidstone United (Ground) Limited. The accounts of the holding company are at; beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/06402198/filing-historyIt appears to me as though the amount from the directors is higher each year that there are figures available for, but there's no way to know whether they have received any at any point.
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Post by gromley on Jan 21, 2019 20:21:54 GMT
As the last accounts are up to June 2017 (the next set must be due soon) it's unsurprising that the amounts owed to the Directors had increased - they paid for the vast majority of the Genco.
You can't really tell too much from the accounts though as they have understandably opted for the small company exemption and only present high level summary accounts. (Or as they are wonderfully called the 'filleted' statements - I must use that word when accounting for myself after a late night bender)
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Post by russc on Jan 21, 2019 20:42:45 GMT
As the last accounts are up to June 2017 (the next set must be due soon) it's unsurprising that the amounts owed to the Directors had increased - they paid for the vast majority of the Genco. You can't really tell too much from the accounts though as they have understandably opted for the small company exemption and only present high level summary accounts. (Or as they are wonderfully called the 'filleted' statements - I must use that word when accounting for myself after a late night bender) as in, "bloody he'll I'm absolutely filleted"?
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Post by porkystone on Jan 22, 2019 9:22:44 GMT
All 3 Limited Companies in the MUFC 'family' have 30 June year ends, so accounts for the year to 30 June 2018 are due to be filed by 31 March 2019, so due soon. Interestingly, per the on line filing log, this is as late as the current Directors have left filing in recent years. For example, accounts y/e 30/06/2017 were filed in November 2017, and accounts y/e 30/06/2016 were filed in November 2016, so a little surprising that nothing has appeared yet. Could mean something, probably means mothing at all, other than people are too busy to finalise. Odd though, because Oct, Nov & Dec are normally quiet months for professional firms who would be pushing to complete tasks such as MUFCs accounts in those months. At the present time of year, if you ask any small scale accounting firm for help they would just reply ' too busy with tax returns … '. When filed, the accounts will give precious little detail of the T & O loans, other than show the total amount due to these guys. I would imagine that the loans are interest free to the club & not subject to repayment terms, because any 'strings' might need to be disclosed as related party information ( not 100 % clear that this wold be the case though ). What is clear is that the amounts owed are increasing as more money is ploughed into the infrastructure of the club & ground, so the following figures can be drawn from accounts already filed: Due To Mr C 30.06.2017 - £ 1,535,000 ( 2016 - £ 1,365,000 ). Due To Mr A 30.06.2017 - £ 1,535,000 ( 2016 - £ 1,365,000 ).
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Post by jdl on Jan 22, 2019 9:37:16 GMT
All 3 Limited Companies in the MUFC 'family' have 30 June year ends, so accounts for the year to 30 June 2018 are due to be filed by 31 March 2019, so due soon. Interestingly, per the on line filing log, this is as late as the current Directors have left filing in recent years. For example, accounts y/e 30/06/2017 were filed in November 2017, and accounts y/e 30/06/2016 were filed in November 2016, so a little surprising that nothing has appeared yet. Could mean something, probably means mothing at all, other than people are too busy to finalise. Odd though, because Oct, Nov & Dec are normally quiet months for professional firms who would be pushing to complete tasks such as MUFCs accounts in those months. At the present time of year, if you ask any small scale accounting firm for help they would just reply ' too busy with tax returns … '. When filed, the accounts will give precious little detail of the T & O loans, other than show the total amount due to these guys. I would imagine that the loans are interest free to the club & not subject to repayment terms, because any 'strings' might need to be disclosed as related party information ( not 100 % clear that this wold be the case though ). What is clear is that the amounts owed are increasing as more money is ploughed into the infrastructure of the club & ground, so the following figures can be drawn from accounts already filed: Due To Mr C 30.06.2017 - £ 1,535,000 ( 2016 - £ 1,365,000 ). Due To Mr A 30.06.2017 - £ 1,535,000 ( 2016 - £ 1,365,000 ). We've had this discussion so many times! The fact is, none of us know - nor probably ever will. We just have to trust in T&O - and have no reason not to. For my money (and, thankfully, it isn't!), I’d be very surprised if T&O expected (or received) any interest on their 'loans', or expected to get the capital back any time soon. Whatever the technicalities, they effectively paid to set the club up, and, as long as it runs sustainably, and doesn't mean them constantly pumping money in*, they're probably happy. I would imagine that the most they ever expect in terms of 'returns' is to get their 'investment' back on day when they retire and (hopefully) manage to sell the club. But, more realistically, I suspect they know that they are not going to get back much, if anything at all. (*but, unfortunately, that 'sustainability' model doesn't seem to work at NL level)
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Post by Bernie on Jan 22, 2019 10:35:17 GMT
£340,000 sounds about the cost of a replacement pitch?
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