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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2016 9:03:29 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2016 9:39:47 GMT
Does he still not want to sign Jack Parkinson?
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Post by gomeradave on Mar 2, 2016 12:59:59 GMT
I fully sympathise with Jim Parmenter and even more with the Braintree owners who had even fewer at their game last night. But when did the FA last consider the fans, particularly travelling fans. With support dropping all round, the pyramid system which was a great idea when introduced should now be altered by turning the clock back nearly sixty years when we had FL Divisions Three(North and South) and regionalise from there downwards. When reading about a proposed European League in this mornings papers I shuddered and thought about that old saying -'Money is the root of all evil'. No Sky TV in this house - never will be!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2016 13:25:13 GMT
I fully sympathise with Jim Parmenter and even more with the Braintree owners who had even fewer at their game last night. But when did the FA last consider the fans, particularly travelling fans. With support dropping all round, the pyramid system which was a great idea when introduced should now be altered by turning the clock back nearly sixty years when we had FL Divisions Three(North and South) and regionalise from there downwards. When reading about a proposed European League in this mornings papers I shuddered and thought about that old saying -'Money is the root of all evil'. No Sky TV in this house - never will be! There's been plenty of talk for quite a few years about further regionalisation of the pyramid. Unfortunately there are too many vested interests and people protecting their own empires for it ever to happen. Maybe one day we'll get strong leadership from the FA but I'm not holding my breath. |
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Post by mrplow on Mar 2, 2016 20:03:58 GMT
Well if they aren't going to turn up why should he put his money in? The Dover fans showed great support in the Ryman, maybe if they dropped down to the pub leagues, the fans will flock back to enjoy playing against the met police on cheaper prices. Most of them don't even like Parmenter, it's probably why they don't go.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2016 20:15:21 GMT
Doesn't sound good for Dover
Jim Parmenter moaning about Dover people not wanting to support their local club
will not encourage any extra fans through the turnstiles
He is right to be disappointed, his club has enjoyed great success
But the fan base is pathetic
If he puts away his chequebook then the future for Dover is bleak
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2016 20:45:06 GMT
I probably sound like a broken record going on about demographics on this forum but it still amazes me that experienced businessmen like Parmenter expect thousands of fans to just appear out of nowhere in a small town. Some population and attendance figures (2011 census):
Maidstone 113,137 (closer to 150,000 in the borough), 2,222 att.
Dartford (borough) 89,900, 1,120 att.
Gravesend 66,000, 935 att.
Margate 57,008, 808 att.
Tonbridge 38,657 489 att.
Dover 31,022 948 att.
Now, you don't have to be Einstein to work out that there is usually a correlation between a town's population and the interest in their football club. In the case of all four sides in Vanarama South, the relative attendances are in the exact same order as the population figures. In Dover's case, their average attendance actually far exceeds what we might expect given their population figure, which shows that in reality the amount of interest in the club is quite healthy given the number of people who live there (I added Tonbridge to further illustrate this fact). For Jim Parmenter to expect hundreds more people living in the town to turn up, given the obvious statistical facts, is daft. The only way he will achieve that would be to spend his money on thousands of new houses to make the town bigger!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2016 20:51:48 GMT
From reading the Dover forum the price to get in isnt the main problem
Seems to be a mixture of people not liking Jim & his son, the poor football (Chris Kinnear is known for his long ball football) & people moaning about the overall match day experience (seems to be a problem with their stewards/nightclub bouncers)
The whole shambles last season of letting UKIP be a match sponsor caused a big backlash as well
Can understand why he voiced his opinion....but this type of thing normally backfires and means less people show up.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2016 21:50:41 GMT
I probably sound like a broken record going on about demographics on this forum but it still amazes me that experienced businessmen like Parmenter expect thousands of fans to just appear out of nowhere in a small town. Some population and attendance figures (2011 census): Maidstone 113,137 (closer to 150,000 in the borough), 2,222 att. Dartford (borough) 89,900, 1,120 att. Gravesend 66,000, 935 att. Margate 57,008, 808 att. Tonbridge 38,657 489 att. Dover 31,022 948 att. Now, you don't have to be Einstein to work out that there is usually a correlation between a town's population and the interest in their football club. In the case of all four sides in Vanarama South, the relative attendances are in the exact same order as the population figures. In Dover's case, their average attendance actually far exceeds their population figure, which shows that in reality the amount of interest in the club is quite healthy given the number of people who live there (I added Tonbridge to further illustrate this fact). For Jim Parmenter to expect hundreds more people living in the town to turn up, given the obvious statistical facts, is daft. The only way he will achieve that would be to spend his money on thousands of new houses to make the town bigger! Strange that a man whose livelihood and fortune depends on getting business decisions right, can't see what is obvious to football forum posters. None so blind as football club chairmen? |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2016 22:06:49 GMT
People can't see it JDL. I made a comment about demographics regarding Ebbsfleet on Kent Online a month or two back (beneath an article about their new stand) and got slaughtered in the replies, from people who think that through buying success, they will soon be filling their stands with thousands of new supporters. It won't happen. If they make the football league they will pick up maybe 5 - 800 more simply through providing a higher standard of football but it won't be thousands. It just doesn't work like that.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2016 22:06:55 GMT
From reading the Dover forum the price to get in isnt the main problem Seems to be a mixture of people not liking Jim & his son, the poor football (Chris Kinnear is known for his long ball football) & people moaning about the overall match day experience (seems to be a problem with their stewards/nightclub bouncers) The whole shambles last season of letting UKIP be a match sponsor caused a big backlash as well Can understand why he voiced his opinion....but this type of thing normally backfires and means less people show up. Once chairmen start having a go at the fans, you've had it, really. I suspect that it's the size of the core support that really matters, not so much the variance in gates between good and bad times. If your core support is 500-600, you are fucked at any level much above IP if you run into bad times. You might get 2,000+ when things are going well, but most of those are fair-weather fans. and for the FL, you probably need a core of about 1,500-2,000 minimum, just to survive. Which makes me wonder what our core is. In the old days, it was probably some way below 1,000 (thinking back to the Barry Fry 'years' and other low points at London Road, and the fag end of things at Dartford. But, maybe now we're right in town, with our fantastic new stadium, our core support is 1,000+. And maybe, if/when we do get back into the League it will grow to 2,000+. But if only 800 turn up for a mid-season Tuesday night game against AFC Never Heard of Them because we're struggling a bit at the moment, then we probably aren't going to be in the FL much longer than we were last time. |
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Post by ronaldostone on Mar 2, 2016 22:13:58 GMT
People can't see it JDL. I made a comment about demographics regarding Ebbsfleet on Kent Online a month or two back (beneath an article about their new stand) and got slaughtered in the replies, from people who think that through buying success, they will soon be filling their stands with thousands of new supporters. It won't happen. If they make the football league they will pick up maybe 5 - 800 more simply through providing a higher standard of football but it won't be thousands. It just doesn't work like that. Ebbsfleet will be the next Garden City lest not forget .... They are my local team but I prefer the pies at Maidstone and of course my heart is made of Amber |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2016 22:15:34 GMT
Fair weather fans are always causing a state of flux. Remember when we were in the Kent County League, walking around the town centre and seeing so many Gillingham scarves and shirts where before there had been so many Maidstone ones. Now, it's gone the other way again. It is of course entirely possible that, if the wheels fell off for a season or two and we got relegated or struggled towards the bottom of the league, a few hundred would drift away again, until the good times return. Diehard supporters moan endlessly about that (including on here!) but it is what it is, there's nothing you can do about it. I strongly suspect that Dover's relatively high support is due to 'supporters' from places like Canterbury and Ashford going there because they are doing well. If the team started struggling, crowds would dwindle and Parmenter would really have something to moan about then.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2016 22:20:16 GMT
People can't see it JDL. I made a comment about demographics regarding Ebbsfleet on Kent Online a month or two back (beneath an article about their new stand) and got slaughtered in the replies, from people who think that through buying success, they will soon be filling their stands with thousands of new supporters. It won't happen. If they make the football league they will pick up maybe 4 - 500 more simply through providing a higher standard of football but it won't be thousands. It just doesn't work like that. The problem is that the logic of that means that small places can't have 'big' clubs, which means that anyone who wants to do more than just chug along at their level and enjoy their football has to dream impossible dreams - and then pay the price. But there's always rich fans and business men that think they can break the rule and drag their local club into the FL and make a successful pro club out of it - and they don't want to face the fact that they aren't special, that they can't defeat the cold, hard logic of not enough fans coming through the gates. People will say "but look at Wimbledon" - and yes, they broke into the FL and then got promoted three times on the trot and beat Liverpool in the FAC Final. But they are the only club that's ever done anything like that. And look what happened to them afterwards... Every other club promoted from the National/Conference has either failed, dropped back, or found its level in L2, or, in a very few cases, L1. |
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Post by ronaldostone on Mar 2, 2016 22:25:35 GMT
Dover are and from my memory always been a decent Kent team and I wish them every success. Far better set up than most of our local non league teams and that catchment area should easily sustain 1000 + crowds so something is certainly amiss. Forget the town itself the whole area south of Canterbury and Ashford should be added to the numbers above, the alternatives ? Margate ? Give me the Crabble any day.
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