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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2014 20:06:23 GMT
I posted a similar analysis on here a few days ago (just for the top half of the IPL - I'm not that dedicated!) and came to much the same conclusion. Comparing home and away performance, 3G doesn't seem to give us any home advantage.
However, I did have some doubts about my analysis (which I would have admitted, had anyone bothered to comment on it!). The problem is that I was comparing a team who happen to be doing very well this season (so are performing better away than most teams) with teams who were mostly having average seasons (so much more likely to be doing less well away). So, in our case, are we doing better comparing away to home because 3G makes no difference, or simply because we're having a good season?
Obviously, this only applies to us, as I have no idea how well other 3G sides are doing. But it could be said to undermine the argument in our particular case. Another example of how a team's performance in a particular season skews the data would have been last season, where for much of the season we did better away from home. But how many would argue that that was because we were playing badly at home because of the 3G pitch? It was just one of those weird seasons, nothing to do with 3G.
I think that for this analysis to have any validity, it needs to be done over several seasons.
But, what if it is done over several seasons, and still the answer is that 3G teams do less well at home than grass teams do? That's hardly an argument FOR 3G!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2014 20:34:43 GMT
Let's start a list! spfl.co.uk/news/article/the-rise-of-the-3g-pitch/Scottish Premiership Hamilton Accies - New Douglas Park Kilmarnock - Rugby Park Scottish Championship Alloa Athletic - Recreation Park Falkirk - Falkirk Stadium Queen of the South - Palmerston Scottish League 1 Airdrieonians - Excelsior Stadium Forfar Athletic - Station Park Stenhousemuir - Ochilview Scottish League 2 Annan Athletic - Galabank Clyde - Broadwood East Stirlingshire - Ochilview Montrose - Links Park |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2014 20:39:24 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2014 20:43:30 GMT
Rugby Union.
Braywick Park - Maidenhead RFC
Allianz Park - Saracens
Rugby League.
Stobart Stadium - Widnes Vikings
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2014 6:47:14 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2014 8:51:51 GMT
I posted a similar analysis on here a few days ago (just for the top half of the IPL - I'm not that dedicated!) and came to much the same conclusion. Comparing home and away performance, 3G doesn't seem to give us any home advantage. Sorry I seem to have missed that. However, I did have some doubts about my analysis (which I would have admitted, had anyone bothered to comment on it!). The problem is that I was comparing a team who happen to be doing very well this season (so are performing better away than most teams) with teams who were mostly having average seasons (so much more likely to be doing less well away). So, in our case, are we doing better comparing away to home because 3G makes no difference, or simply because we're having a good season? Indeed - quite possibly. It should be quite quick and easy to compare how teams playing to different standards are performing - I'll do that in a little while. My reservation about the analysis approach I had used was in comparing the points differences as percentage differences rather than absolute differences - so I was particularly relieved that the absolute difference in the overall was a clear win as well  Obviously, this only applies to us, as I have no idea how well other 3G sides are doing. But it could be said to undermine the argument in our particular case. Another example of how a team's performance in a particular season skews the data would have been last season, where for much of the season we did better away from home. But how many would argue that that was because we were playing badly at home because of the 3G pitch? It was just one of those weird seasons, nothing to do with 3G.? I was quite surprised to see that all of the 3G teams, except Durham City, were doing very well. Random chance, or improving because of 3G? With this (small) data set, there seems to be far more of an argument that 3G at home improves away form more than it improves home form. A little counter intuitive, but maybe if its improving the skills and style of how the team play? (though that wouldn't explain why it has a bigger impact away from home than at home .... maybe more opportunity to pick up points away from home because you're starting from a lower base?) I think that for this analysis to have any validity, it needs to be done over several seasons. Absolutely. Although I was surprised at just how clear the results were, albeit from a small sample and its probably a good indicator, if not statistically valid! I will try and look at earlier seasons for the Ryman later today - or maybe just switch to looking at the Scottish Leagues and look at that over several seasons. But, what if it is done over several seasons, and still the answer is that 3G teams do less well at home than grass teams do? That's hardly an argument FOR 3G! Well, no its not, but has "getting an unfair home advantage" ever been an argument used as a good reason to install 3G? If 5 of the 6 3G teams I've picked from this year get a play off spot or better in their respective leagues, then there's no argument to say that the teams are losing out through 3G! |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2014 9:24:32 GMT
Thanks Tooloow for starting a more comprehensive list without the clutter in a new thread. Perhaps if we add updates here, he can update the other discussion and keep it nice and tidy. I would add the following from this link www.stadiumguide.com/figures-and-statistics/lists/stadiums-with-artificial-turf/Belgium Stayen Sint-Truiden VV 2011 Denmark Farum Park FC Nordsjælland 2012 France Stade Gaston Petit LB Châteauroux 2011 Stade Marcel-Picot AS Nancy 2010 Stade Yves Allainmat FC Lorient 2010 Italy Stadio Dino Manuzzi AC Cesena 2011 Stadio Silvio Piola Novara 2010 Netherlands IJsseldelta Stadion FC Zwolle 2009 Kras Stadion FC Volendam 2006 Polman Stadion Heracles Almelo 2005 Stadion Woudestein SV Excelsior 2010 Norway Alfheim Stadion Tromsø IL 2006 Aspmyra Stadion Bodø / Glimt 2006 Color Line Stadion Aalesund FK 2005 Skagerak Arena Odd Grenland 2007 Portugal Estádio do Bessa Boavista FC 2009 Russia Luzhniki Stadium FC Spartak 2002 Zvezda Stadium FC Amkar 2005 Sweden Borås Arena IF Elfsborg 2005 Norrporten Arena GIF Sundsvall 2009 Nya Parken IFK Norrköping 2009 Switzerland Stade de Suisse Young Boys 2006 Stade la Maladière Neuchâtel Xamax 2007 USA CenturyLink Field Seattle Sounders FC 2002 Gillette Stadium New England Revolution 2002 |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2014 10:33:49 GMT
Thanks Aylesford - I'll get back to that in a bit.
I'm currently working through the Scottish Leagues - comparing home and away. Have to be honest - early indications are not looking favourable for my hypothesis that "3G does not give a home advantage" - however, positive or negative, I'm not intending to hide (or distort) the truth ... so apologies in advance if I don't get to say what I want to say!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2014 11:26:48 GMT
Unfortunately the Scottish league does show slightly more home points won by 3G teams at home, than non 3G teams. (in comparison with their away haul) 
Though I'm relieved to have finished up seeing that it is by no means as dramatic as I feared when I made my last post.... I've only gone back to 2009/10, and only as far as there is at least one 3g team competing in the league in question.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2014 11:41:03 GMT
And people say I need to get laid!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2014 17:03:14 GMT
i started reading this thread, got rapidly bored and scrolled to the end - heathsides post is the most interesting post here
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Post by tjh on Nov 17, 2014 19:10:48 GMT
I don't know much about the issues of home advantage or not. The thing I don't understand is the argument about injuries. Hockey players play on worse 'AstroTurf' pitches all the time and no-one mentions the injury concerns at all. The issue isn't raised at all in American football or other sports which use 3G pitches. This whole thing is a classic example of football living in the old ages, we've finally caught up by having goal line technology(in the top leagues), just seems like the old farts that run some of the football league teams dont want to wake up and see that 3G is the future for smaller clubs. I'm sure the owners would change their minds when they see the revenue it generates.
I think the vote was split due to the PFA pulling strings and throwing its weight about. I'm not saying that all clubs in all tiers should have them, just think the option to have one should be made available.
Just wanted to vent some of my thoughts. You've probably all heard this stuff before.
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