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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2024 12:03:58 GMT
The two directors are indeed owed about £3m - this is a big part of what they invested in 2010 to enable the club to build its infrastructure and its new presence. The published accounts carry this debt as “creditors due within one year” - I assume this rolls over from one year to another. However, I can see that this item is carried in the accounts of Maidstone United Ground ltd - the company that owns the stadium, pitch and other fixed assets. It has 20 so employees who look after those assets. The Football Club - which is a separate company - has 29 employees, who play in, manage and support the various football teams and their operations; this has very little debt. So - the directors appear to me to have benefited from little, if any, debt retirement (repayment). What I don’t understand are the two Charges against the freehold as cited in the Ground accounts - one is held by the Ministry of Defence. Nothing suspicious here - but I’d love to know who owns the freehold and what these two charges relate to - does anyone know? If you can send me a link to the bit about the charges I'll ask Mrs YS to have a look, she's an auditor. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2024 16:06:54 GMT
Just out of curiosity , what makes the owners "owed about £3m" ? I bought a house 10yrs ago, but I'm not owed £300k. I bought a car this year, but im not owed £25k. So what makes owning a football club any different ?
If they take the £3m out of the profits over the years, then sell the club, they would have made a huge profit (not saying I have a problem with that, everyone wants to make money) I'm just wondering why they would be owed that money.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2024 16:24:20 GMT
If it’s an interest free loan, they’re owed the money and have made a loss on what that money could be doing.
If they were paid enough to clear the loan and then sold the various companies at a massive profit, that would be a return on their investment. Plus the taxman would come looking for capital gains tax.
If any new owner must pay off their loans, pay for the club and find several million to build two new stands, it’s no wonder Maidstone’s business community are so reticent about getting involved.
Unless Oliver and Terry are willing to take a massive financial hit, they are here for a while.
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Post by andrewthehat on Feb 28, 2024 19:02:26 GMT
The two directors are indeed owed about £3m - this is a big part of what they invested in 2010 to enable the club to build its infrastructure and its new presence. The published accounts carry this debt as “creditors due within one year” - I assume this rolls over from one year to another. However, I can see that this item is carried in the accounts of Maidstone United Ground ltd - the company that owns the stadium, pitch and other fixed assets. It has 20 so employees who look after those assets. The Football Club - which is a separate company - has 29 employees, who play in, manage and support the various football teams and their operations; this has very little debt. So - the directors appear to me to have benefited from little, if any, debt retirement (repayment). What I don’t understand are the two Charges against the freehold as cited in the Ground accounts - one is held by the Ministry of Defence. Nothing suspicious here - but I’d love to know who owns the freehold and what these two charges relate to - does anyone know? If you can send me a link to the bit about the charges I'll ask Mrs YS to have a look, she's an auditor. There is no detail in the filings - thanks for the offer but honestly, unless Mrs YS has access to the private books, even her skills would be wasted on this. |
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Post by jackster on Feb 28, 2024 20:25:00 GMT
Just out of curiosity , what makes the owners "owed about £3m" ? I bought a house 10yrs ago, but I'm not owed £300k. I bought a car this year, but im not owed £25k. So what makes owning a football club any different ? If they take the £3m out of the profits over the years, then sell the club, they would have made a huge profit (not saying I have a problem with that, everyone wants to make money) I'm just wondering why they would be owed that money. Am I missing something ? The owners have NOT taken a penny piece out of the club over the past 10 years. Seasonal profits have simply been ploughed back into the club. So i don't see where this talk of huge profit comes from. The only way they could profit is if they were able to sell the club for something well over £3million. That's possible of course but who knows ? |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2024 20:36:24 GMT
Just out of curiosity , what makes the owners "owed about £3m" ? I bought a house 10yrs ago, but I'm not owed £300k. I bought a car this year, but im not owed £25k. So what makes owning a football club any different ? If they take the £3m out of the profits over the years, then sell the club, they would have made a huge profit (not saying I have a problem with that, everyone wants to make money) I'm just wondering why they would be owed that money. Am I missing something ? The owners have NOT taken a penny piece out of the club over the past 10 years. Seasonal profits have simply been ploughed back into the club. So i don't see where this talk of huge profit comes from. The only way they could profit is if they were able to sell the club for something well over £3million. That's possible of course but who knows ? Surely if the club is making a profit, it means the money isn't pumped back in. If it was, then they would be breaking even each season. |
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7oaks
First Eleven
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Post by 7oaks on Feb 28, 2024 20:36:25 GMT
In an attempt to answer the question of the club's owners being owed the money I imagine that Terry and Oliver created the limited company that acquired the ground and made improvements such as the stands. Terry and Oliver loaned the company (directly or indirectly) to fund the costs. Those loans will be due back to Terry and Oliver in accordance with the relevant agreements.
Similarly, if I bought a house for £300k, a bank or building society might loan me the money to acquire the house and I would owe the bank until I repaid the loan / mortgage. Just as the holding company for the club owes Terry and Oliver for the directors' loans they have provided.
I have now seen the question concerning the profits. My understanding is that apart from last year the club made profits each year. I suspect those profits would have been modest compared to the level of directors' loans. Any surplus cash generated by the club may have been reinvested in additions and improvements to the facilities at the club, including the replacement 3G pitch about 5 years ago and the second replacement likely this coming summer.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2024 23:03:22 GMT
This old chestnut again.
Whats so hard to understand that the operating surplus (profit) has been ploughed back into the club at the end of every season.
The owners havn't received a single penny for their 'investment'
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2024 23:09:18 GMT
We would need to look at the Owners Equity / Net Asset Value to see what accounts reflect the value of the company to be. I suppose football clubs are only worth their marketable value . What a new buyer is willing to pay after doing due diligence. Some clubs are like houses with no potential buyers , others have only a few potential buyers and some are in the market where billionaires spend their money.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 29, 2024 14:11:22 GMT
If you can send me a link to the bit about the charges I'll ask Mrs YS to have a look, she's an auditor. There is no detail in the filings - thanks for the offer but honestly, unless Mrs YS has access to the private books, even her skills would be wasted on this. Yep, as you say Mrs YS can throw little light on the subject but did point out that a charge appearing as a result of owner inward investment would be unusual which suggests it being an injection of cash by a third party, most likely a bank or other financial investment vehicle. As you say, what for is the question, perhaps the timing of the documents may give a clue? |
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Post by applesnstones on Mar 1, 2024 13:07:41 GMT
There is no detail in the filings - thanks for the offer but honestly, unless Mrs YS has access to the private books, even her skills would be wasted on this. Yep, as you say Mrs YS can throw little light on the subject but did point out that a charge appearing as a result of owner inward investment would be unusual which suggests it being an injection of cash by a third party, most likely a bank or other financial investment vehicle. As you say, what for is the question, perhaps the timing of the documents may give a clue? Interesting. I wonder if this is associated with the Riverside land purchase, or indeed whether more land was acquired from the MOD which previously owned that on which the original ground is built, with a 99 year lease. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2024 16:43:41 GMT
While we're discussing the company structure, perhaps some knowledgeable person (Colin Trelfer?) could assist me. I've left "Maidstone United Football Club" a sizeable (for me) gift in my will (for their general purposes). Since signing it, I have seen that there are three different MUFC companies. Should I be altering my will to specify one of those companies, or will my general wording mean that the money will still go to where I intended? I ask as a retired solicitor, but I always avoided probate work!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2024 17:02:04 GMT
Ask the club what they would prefer?
If there are two charges on the ground and one is the MOD, it might be for a share of the profits if the ground is ever developed for flats. Even a government department is not going to give away prime town centre land without a few conditions.
Could the other be the £50,000 we borrowed during covid? That’s another liability that will be nibbling away at the FA Cup money.
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