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Post by jdl on Sept 16, 2019 20:08:59 GMT
All football clubs should be declared ACVs (Asset of Community Value) - or some similar scheme should be set up specifically for football clubs, as the ACV scheme is more aimed at safeguarding buildings, like pubs, etc. The idea would be that football clubs would be recognised as more than just businesses or property, but as part of the local community - an asset of community value. Things like change of name, moving out of the area, sale of the ground, amalgamation with other clubs, etc would be strictly controlled, with the local authority having to give permission before they can happen, and they in turn would have to conduct a local consultation before making any decisions. The bias would always be very much towards keeping the club as it is - same name, same ground, etc - unless the reasons for change could be demonstrated to be of benefit to the club, the supporters and the local community. Local authority. Don’t think so Yeah, I know - on past performance that doesn't sound like a good idea. But who else? These things always seem to be done by the local autority. And even MBC is better than no one at all.
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Post by daveu on Sept 16, 2019 21:45:51 GMT
Maidstone United is in very good hands and is absolutely fine as it is. No need for interference from either the local authority, or some nebulous hipster community asset hogwash. Just because some clubs fall prey to unscrupulous, or merely incompetent owners doesn't mean all clubs should be tarred with the same brush.
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Post by Sennockian69 on Sept 16, 2019 23:07:52 GMT
Also - Councils have legally prescribed duties - like the provision of social housing and services- Imagine the media shit storm if they spent money on securing a football club.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2019 8:03:23 GMT
Perhaps take the beginning of direct promotion and relegation between the APL and FL as the line? Makes sense from a procedural point of view as clubs from then on were promoted rather than elected. Scarborough would be the first ex-non-league club and Darlington (or was it Lincoln?) would be the first ex-league club. Lincoln was the first club to come down - they went back up the next season. Newport were the next to come down, but they went bust (during the season, I think?). Then Darlington came down the year we went up (and made a huge fuss about it!). Next was Colchester, the first ex-EFL club to spend more than a season in the Conference. There's a strange gap in my spreadsheet the following year, so I guess no one came down for some reason (club going bust?). After that it was Hallifax's first relegation to the Conference - they were with 'us' for 5 years, the first club to spend a long time out of the EFL, and starting a trend of long-term demotion. After that, nearly all relegated clubs spent at least 2 seasons in the Conference, some a lot more. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_League_Fourth_Division#History1990/91 the 4 divisions were 20 24 24 24 = 92, 91/2 they were 22 24 24 23 = 93 but Aldershot went pop so ended up 92 after all. So it's something to do with that. Then later on you have the gap where Stevenage, Macclesfield and Kidderminster were refused promotion in successive years. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_League_(English_football)#Past_National_League_winners
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Post by jdl on Sept 17, 2019 12:59:06 GMT
Lincoln was the first club to come down - they went back up the next season. Newport were the next to come down, but they went bust (during the season, I think?). Then Darlington came down the year we went up (and made a huge fuss about it!). Next was Colchester, the first ex-EFL club to spend more than a season in the Conference. There's a strange gap in my spreadsheet the following year, so I guess no one came down for some reason (club going bust?). After that it was Hallifax's first relegation to the Conference - they were with 'us' for 5 years, the first club to spend a long time out of the EFL, and starting a trend of long-term demotion. After that, nearly all relegated clubs spent at least 2 seasons in the Conference, some a lot more. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_League_Fourth_Division#History1990/91 the 4 divisions were 20 24 24 24 = 92, 91/2 they were 22 24 24 23 = 93 but Aldershot went pop so ended up 92 after all. So it's something to do with that. Then later on you have the gap where Stevenage, Macclesfield and Kidderminster were refused promotion in successive years. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_League_(English_football)#Past_National_League_winners Yeah, I thought it must have been Aldershot. Just too lazy to check! The three refused promotions are quite interesting, as they fell foul of new promotion criteria brought in after we went bust. We effectively screwed the promotion chances of three clubs. Macclesfield managed to go up two years later, and Kidderminster only had to wait 6 years (although they only lasted 5 seasons in the FL anyway), but Stevenage had to wait fourteen years before they got a second chance.
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Post by jdl on Sept 17, 2019 13:10:57 GMT
Maidstone United is in very good hands and is absolutely fine as it is. No need for interference from either the local authority, or some nebulous hipster community asset hogwash. Just because some clubs fall prey to unscrupulous, or merely incompetent owners doesn't mean all clubs should be tarred with the same brush. It was only meant as a safeguard (a 'backstop', if you will) to prevent the more extreme cases. The fact that we are in good hands (at the moment) is hardly a valid argument - "nebulous hipster community asset hogwash" or not. Every football club is only one change of ownership away from uncertainty. Some don't even need that.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2019 13:48:02 GMT
Yeah, I thought it must have been Aldershot. Just too lazy to check! The three refused promotions are quite interesting, as they fell foul of new promotion criteria brought in after we went bust. We effectively screwed the promotion chances of three clubs. Macclesfield managed to go up two years later, and Kidderminster only had to wait 6 years (although they only lasted 5 seasons in the FL anyway), but Stevenage had to wait fourteen years before they got a second chance. There's a Pointless round in the making for teams who've played in "Step One" since 1979. Trowbridge Bangor Leamington Droylsden Alfreton Weymouth Lewes Mansfield Histon Salisbury Welling Leigh RMI Tamworth off the top of my head as some that have been up (or down) there fleetingly. BTW JDL I'm surprised you've not commented on the topsy-turvy National League standings... a long way to go of course... meanwhile I await your updated average attendance stats with bated breath.
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Post by sword65 on Sept 17, 2019 13:54:46 GMT
Yeah, I thought it must have been Aldershot. Just too lazy to check! The three refused promotions are quite interesting, as they fell foul of new promotion criteria brought in after we went bust. We effectively screwed the promotion chances of three clubs. Macclesfield managed to go up two years later, and Kidderminster only had to wait 6 years (although they only lasted 5 seasons in the FL anyway), but Stevenage had to wait fourteen years before they got a second chance. There's a Pointless round in the making for teams who've played in "Step One" since 1979. Trowbridge Bangor Leamington Droylsden Alfreton Weymouth Lewes Mansfield Histon Salisbury Welling Leigh RMI Tamworth off the top of my head as some that have been up (or down) there fleetingly. BTW JDL I'm surprised you've not commented on the topsy-turvy National League standings... a long way to go of course... meanwhile I await your updated average attendance stats with bated breath. Poor old Trowbridge ,another sad loss to non league football😥
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Post by jdl on Sept 17, 2019 20:25:36 GMT
Yeah, I thought it must have been Aldershot. Just too lazy to check! The three refused promotions are quite interesting, as they fell foul of new promotion criteria brought in after we went bust. We effectively screwed the promotion chances of three clubs. Macclesfield managed to go up two years later, and Kidderminster only had to wait 6 years (although they only lasted 5 seasons in the FL anyway), but Stevenage had to wait fourteen years before they got a second chance. There's a Pointless round in the making for teams who've played in "Step One" since 1979. Trowbridge Bangor Leamington Droylsden Alfreton Weymouth Lewes Mansfield Histon Salisbury Welling Leigh RMI Tamworth off the top of my head as some that have been up (or down) there fleetingly. BTW JDL I'm surprised you've not commented on the topsy-turvy National League standings... a long way to go of course... meanwhile I await your updated average attendance stats with bated breath. I don't usually take much notice of stats until the end of September. Things have usually started to settle down by then and you can start to see patterns that predict the end of the season. It will be interesting to see if Woking can sustain their current form (ditto Wealdstone). My gut feel is that they'll both fade.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2019 20:31:16 GMT
Apart from making a massive fuss about attendances after one game...
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Post by jdl on Sept 17, 2019 20:42:48 GMT
Just out of interest, these were the founder members of the Alliance League:
Bangor Nuneaton Wealdstone G&N Leamington Stafford Barrow Worcester Yeovil Frickley Scarborough Bath Weymouth Maidstone Barnet Boston Altrincham Kettering Telford Northwich
Frickley were originally a miners' welfare side and Leamington were actually called AP Leamington, where the 'AP' stood for Automotive Products - they were originally the Lockheed works team. Northwich Victoria were one of the founder members of the FL - or at least it's second division.
Bangor, Nuneaton and Wealdstone all went down at the end of that first season, replaced by Dartford and Trowbridge from the SP and Runcorn from the NP - plus Enfield and Dagenham (not yet D&R!) from the IP, with the league expanded to 22 teams as the IP joined the pyramid. The champions were Altrincham (who were the team of the time), with Kettering as runners-up. We were 7th.
Runcorn were Champions the 2nd season, and went on to have the honour of being the last team we ever played in the old Conference.
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Post by jdl on Sept 17, 2019 20:44:52 GMT
Apart from making a massive fuss about attendances after one game... Pointing out that the attendance figures looked weird = "making a massive fuss". Are you channelling nws?!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2019 11:04:41 GMT
Just out of interest, these were the founder members of the Alliance League: Bangor Nuneaton Wealdstone G&N Leamington Stafford Barrow Worcester Yeovil Frickley Scarborough Bath Weymouth Maidstone Barnet Boston Altrincham Kettering Telford Northwich Frickley were originally a miners' welfare side and Leamington were actually called AP Leamington, where the 'AP' stood for Automotive Products - they were originally the Lockheed works team. Northwich Victoria were one of the founder members of the FL - or at least it's second division. Bangor, Nuneaton and Wealdstone all went down at the end of that first season, replaced by Dartford and Trowbridge from the SP and Runcorn from the NP - plus Enfield and Dagenham (not yet D&R!) from the IP, with the league expanded to 22 teams as the IP joined the pyramid. The champions were Altrincham (who were the team of the time), with Kettering as runners-up. We were 7th. Runcorn were Champions the 2nd season, and went on to have the honour of being the last team we ever plasyed in the old Conference. www.fchd.info/lghist/nat.htm for a complete history. Hayes Hednesford Kingstonian Margate Grays Doncaster Stafford Redditch Witton Canvey Leek Slough added to my list of "forgot they played there" teams...
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Post by yorkshirestone on Oct 4, 2019 11:55:56 GMT
Yeah, I thought it must have been Aldershot. Just too lazy to check! The three refused promotions are quite interesting, as they fell foul of new promotion criteria brought in after we went bust. We effectively screwed the promotion chances of three clubs. Macclesfield managed to go up two years later, and Kidderminster only had to wait 6 years (although they only lasted 5 seasons in the FL anyway), but Stevenage had to wait fourteen years before they got a second chance. IIRC Stevenage were denied promotion because at the time the FL had a rule about a ground having to be up to standard in the December before promotion is earned. Stevenage had work underway and a guaranteed finish date but because it was after the December deadline they were not promoted despite the work actually being finished before the end of their "promotion" campaign. An early indicator of the anal retentiveness of the FL that persists to this day.
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