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Post by porkystone on Sept 7, 2019 5:53:46 GMT
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Post by Bernie on Sept 7, 2019 8:05:44 GMT
Some thought-provoking and just provoking comments. Almost all of football's woes are caused by incompetent owners. I have some sympathy with the following...
Always worth highlighting that the first and second team to be promoted from non- league (Scarborough and Maidstone), who were not league members when automatic promotion was introduced, both went bust after numerous financial crisis.
The third, Barnet, have staggered between the league and the conference and faced numerous financial crisis along the way. They are no longer in the league either. Rushden and Diamonds, and Boston also flew too close to the sun and paid the price.
Of all the clubs promoted to the league, only Wycombe, Burton and Yeovil have made any sort of impression. Either having got to a major cup semi final or played in the 2nd tier. The latter is also of course no longer a league member seemingly as a consequence of their year in the 2nd tier.
Of all the clubs relegated from the league who were league members back in 1987, Newport, Darlington, Halifax, Chester and Hereford all ceased to exist after relegation. Hartlepool and Stockport also very narrowly escaped bankruptcy. One wonders what may have happened to Burnley, Bournemouth and Brighton had their narrow escapes being unsuccessful.
Then one can note the number of non league clubs who have bankrupted themselves trying to get in the league or competing in the conference against clubs who had stars in their eyes.
One could argue that the decision to automatically promote teams from the conference has been absolutely disastrous for lower league clubs and those in non league.
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Post by stainese on Sept 7, 2019 8:52:56 GMT
I always understood that any club seeking election to the Football League under the old pre automatic promotion system had to prove there worthiness
This not only meant suitable ground but also financial ability.
It seems now all you have to do clubs is gamble on getting a champion team together and win your way.
The old system was rotten but do clubs not still have to prove there worthiness of membership ?
And if not why not.
With all the talk of corrupt gambling in football should not the FA & FL first action not be against club owners who gamble with the future of there respective clubs
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Post by La femme de Vic Jobson on Sept 7, 2019 12:31:24 GMT
Some thought-provoking and just provoking comments. Almost all of football's woes are caused by incompetent owners. I have some sympathy with the following... Always worth highlighting that the first and second team to be promoted from non- league (Scarborough and Maidstone), who were not league members when automatic promotion was introduced, both went bust after numerous financial crisis.
The third, Barnet, have staggered between the league and the conference and faced numerous financial crisis along the way. They are no longer in the league either. Rushden and Diamonds, and Boston also flew too close to the sun and paid the price.
Of all the clubs promoted to the league, only Wycombe, Burton and Yeovil have made any sort of impression. Either having got to a major cup semi final or played in the 2nd tier. The latter is also of course no longer a league member seemingly as a consequence of their year in the 2nd tier.
Of all the clubs relegated from the league who were league members back in 1987, Newport, Darlington, Halifax, Chester and Hereford all ceased to exist after relegation. Hartlepool and Stockport also very narrowly escaped bankruptcy. One wonders what may have happened to Burnley, Bournemouth and Brighton had their narrow escapes being unsuccessful.
Then one can note the number of non league clubs who have bankrupted themselves trying to get in the league or competing in the conference against clubs who had stars in their eyes.
One could argue that the decision to automatically promote teams from the conference has been absolutely disastrous for lower league clubs and those in non league.It's just bollocks. How do you define making an impact? It completely ignores what's happened at Crawley, Stevenage, Macclesfield, Kidderminster where teams have good seasons and bad, just like they do everywhere else in the league system. |
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Post by daveu on Sept 7, 2019 12:54:48 GMT
Some pretty shoddy journalism in there. We didn't take over a local Junior side, the youth team were already part of the club. There wasn't even a team called Maidstone Invicta at the time. The name was adopted because we weren't allowed to continue as United. We did effectively take over a junior side much later when we amalgamated with South Park Rangers but we were already an established Isthmian League club by then. |
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Post by moley on Sept 7, 2019 17:28:57 GMT
Some pretty shoddy journalism in there. We didn't take over a local Junior side, the youth team were already part of the club. There wasn't even a team called Maidstone Invicta at the time. The name was adopted because we weren't allowed to continue as United. We did effectively take over a junior side much later when we amalgamated with South Park Rangers but we were already an established Isthmian League club by then. Whilst what you say is correct this particular faux pas doesn't spoil the article at all and doesn't mislead to the extent that affects anything |
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Post by jdl on Sept 7, 2019 21:33:21 GMT
Some thought-provoking and just provoking comments. Almost all of football's woes are caused by incompetent owners. I have some sympathy with the following... Always worth highlighting that the first and second team to be promoted from non- league (Scarborough and Maidstone), who were not league members when automatic promotion was introduced, both went bust after numerous financial crisis.
The third, Barnet, have staggered between the league and the conference and faced numerous financial crisis along the way. They are no longer in the league either. Rushden and Diamonds, and Boston also flew too close to the sun and paid the price.
Of all the clubs promoted to the league, only Wycombe, Burton and Yeovil have made any sort of impression. Either having got to a major cup semi final or played in the 2nd tier. The latter is also of course no longer a league member seemingly as a consequence of their year in the 2nd tier.
Of all the clubs relegated from the league who were league members back in 1987, Newport, Darlington, Halifax, Chester and Hereford all ceased to exist after relegation. Hartlepool and Stockport also very narrowly escaped bankruptcy. One wonders what may have happened to Burnley, Bournemouth and Brighton had their narrow escapes being unsuccessful.
Then one can note the number of non league clubs who have bankrupted themselves trying to get in the league or competing in the conference against clubs who had stars in their eyes.
One could argue that the decision to automatically promote teams from the conference has been absolutely disastrous for lower league clubs and those in non league.I'm puzzled about the bit in italics - where's it from? There's no attribution or quotes to indicate it's not original, but it reads like you ARE quoting/copying it from somewhere else. |
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Post by jdl on Sept 8, 2019 1:08:35 GMT
Non-league clubs promoted from the Conference since automatic promotion in 87:
(Altrincham, Runcorn, Enfield (twice), Maidstone and Wealdstone all won the league before automatic promotion came in, but none were elected to the EFL.)
1987 – Scarborough – relegated back to the Conference after 12 years in the EFL, relegated from the Conference after 7 years and went bust.
1989 – Maidstone – went bust after 3 years in the EFL – promoted back to the Conference in 2016, relegated after 3 years – now in NS.
1991 – Barnet - relegated back to the Conference after 10 years in the EFL, promoted again after 4 years, relegated back to the Conference after 8 years, promoted again after 2 years, relegated back to the Conference after 3 years.
1992 – Wycombe – still in EFL
(1994 - Kidderminster, 1995 – Macclesfield, 1996 - Stevenage - not allowed into the EFL as they failed the new membership criteria. – all went on to gain promotion later.)
1997 - Macclesfield - relegated back to the Conference after 15 years, promoted again after 6 years in the Conference, still in EFL.
1999 – Cheltenham - relegated back to the Conference after 16 years, promoted back first season, still in EFL.
2000 – Kidderminster - relegated back to the Conference after 5 years, relegated from the Conference after 11 years – now in NN.
2001 – Rushton & Diamonds - relegated back to the Conference after 5 years, went bust after 4 years in the Conference.
2002 – Boston – relegated back after 5 years, but dropped to NS because of financial problems, relegated again to the NP the following year due to ongoing financial problems – now in the NN
2003 – Yeovil – relegated back to the Conference after 16 years
2006 – Accrington Stanley – still in EFL
2007 – D&R – relegated back to the Conference after 9 years
2007 – Morecambe – promoted to EFL despite finishing 3rd (Oxford 2nd) – still in EFL
2009 – Burton Albion – still in EFL
2010 – Stevenage – still in EFL
2011 – Crawley – still in EFL
2012 – Fleetwood – still in EFL
2017 – Forest Green Rovers – still in EFL
2019 – Salford – still in EFL
(Alliance/Conference/National referred to as 'Conference' for convenience. AFC Wimbledon not included - regarded as ex-EFL club.)
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Post by royalstone on Sept 8, 2019 1:26:41 GMT
Non-league clubs promoted from the Conference since automatic promotion in 87:(Altrincham, Runcorn, Enfield (twice), Maidstone and Wealdstone all won the league before automatic promotion came in, but none were elected to the EFL.) 1987 – Scarborough – relegated back to the Conference after 12 years in the EFL, relegated from the Conference after 7 years and went bust. 1989 – Maidstone – went bust after 3 years in the EFL – promoted back to the Conference in 2016, relegated after 3 years – now in NS. 1991 – Barnet - relegated back to the Conference after 10 years in the EFL, promoted again after 4 years, relegated back to the Conference after 8 years, promoted again after 2 years, relegated back to the Conference after 3 years. 1992 – Wycombe – still in EFL(1994 - Kidderminster, 1995 – Macclesfield, 1996 - Stevenage - not allowed into the EFL as they failed the new membership criteria. – all went on to gain promotion later.) 1997 - Macclesfield - relegated back to the Conference after 15 years, promoted again after 6 years in the Conference, still in EFL. 1999 – Cheltenham - relegated back to the Conference after 16 years, promoted back first season, still in EFL. 2000 – Kidderminster - relegated back to the Conference after 5 years, relegated from the Conference after 11 years – now in NN. 2001 – Rushton & Diamonds - relegated back to the Conference after 5 years, went bust after 4 years in the Conference. 2002 – Boston – relegated back after 5 years, but dropped to NS because of financial problems, relegated again to the NP the following year due to ongoing financial problems – now in the NN2003 – Yeovil – relegated back to the Conference after 16 years2006 – Accrington Stanley – still in EFL2007 – D&R – relegated back to the Conference after 9 years2007 – Morecambe – promoted to EFL despite finishing 3rd (Oxford 2nd) – still in EFL2009 – Burton Albion – still in EFL2010 – Stevenage – still in EFL2011 – Crawley – still in EFL2012 – Fleetwood – still in EFL2017 – Forest Green Rovers – still in EFL2019 – Salford – still in EFL(Alliance/Conference/National referred to as 'Conference' for convenience. AFC Wimbledon not included - regarded as ex-EFL club.) A good piece of research and as I thought to myself barney's assertion that you could argue automatic promotion from the conference has been disastrous is not always the case. There are plenty of success stories among the mixed fortunes and the disasters. The problem is not the automatic promotion from the conference but the way the club's were run. For instance Rushden and Diamonds were always a recipe for disaster as they were spending well beyond there means. |
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Post by sword65 on Sept 8, 2019 5:34:39 GMT
Non-league clubs promoted from the Conference since automatic promotion in 87:(Altrincham, Runcorn, Enfield (twice), Maidstone and Wealdstone all won the league before automatic promotion came in, but none were elected to the EFL.) 1987 – Scarborough – relegated back to the Conference after 12 years in the EFL, relegated from the Conference after 7 years and went bust. 1989 – Maidstone – went bust after 3 years in the EFL – promoted back to the Conference in 2016, relegated after 3 years – now in NS. 1991 – Barnet - relegated back to the Conference after 10 years in the EFL, promoted again after 4 years, relegated back to the Conference after 8 years, promoted again after 2 years, relegated back to the Conference after 3 years. 1992 – Wycombe – still in EFL(1994 - Kidderminster, 1995 – Macclesfield, 1996 - Stevenage - not allowed into the EFL as they failed the new membership criteria. – all went on to gain promotion later.) 1997 - Macclesfield - relegated back to the Conference after 15 years, promoted again after 6 years in the Conference, still in EFL. 1999 – Cheltenham - relegated back to the Conference after 16 years, promoted back first season, still in EFL. 2000 – Kidderminster - relegated back to the Conference after 5 years, relegated from the Conference after 11 years – now in NN. 2001 – Rushton & Diamonds - relegated back to the Conference after 5 years, went bust after 4 years in the Conference. 2002 – Boston – relegated back after 5 years, but dropped to NS because of financial problems, relegated again to the NP the following year due to ongoing financial problems – now in the NN2003 – Yeovil – relegated back to the Conference after 16 years2006 – Accrington Stanley – still in EFL2007 – D&R – relegated back to the Conference after 9 years2007 – Morecambe – promoted to EFL despite finishing 3rd (Oxford 2nd) – still in EFL2009 – Burton Albion – still in EFL2010 – Stevenage – still in EFL2011 – Crawley – still in EFL2012 – Fleetwood – still in EFL2017 – Forest Green Rovers – still in EFL2019 – Salford – still in EFL(Alliance/Conference/National referred to as 'Conference' for convenience. AFC Wimbledon not included - regarded as ex-EFL club.) A good post but you let yourself down with your last sentence, AFC Wimbledon are not an ex EFL club they are a brand new team who were promoted to the EFL. The only people that think they are are cretinous morons ie AFC Wimbledon fans,and despite what many people think of you on this board I don't think you have yet descended to the cretinous moron stage. An apology required or I send Malcolm round to peck your eyeballs out. |
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Post by Bernie on Sept 8, 2019 7:20:11 GMT
Some thought-provoking and just provoking comments. I'm puzzled about the bit in italics - where's it from? There's no attribution or quotes to indicate it's not original, but it reads like you ARE quoting/copying it from somewhere else. The clue to where the italics comes from is in the non-italics. It's not hard to scroll down and find. It's always worth reminding ourselves that not all of football remembers Maidstone United in the Football League as fondly as we do. |
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Post by Bernie on Sept 8, 2019 7:33:31 GMT
What some of you old boys forget, or choose to misremember, is that promotion to the Football League was the worst catastrophe in the history of the club, which killed another club in the process. Was one exciting season, followed by Graham Carr and liquidation, really worth selling two football grounds for? Even if history repeated itself and John Still won back to back promotions, would it be any better? We are several million pounds short of even the most basic EFL set up. Where is this money coming from? Maybe a few dozen more tiles on the main stand, or a few modest donations towards the new terrace? Or local business who were asked for £150,000 each to build JWW in return for shares? Only Gallagher responded. If we had failed to win promotion to the Football League, maybe a more modest non-league ground would have been built in the town. You can keep your "living the dream" nonsense. I prefer things as they are.
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Post by royalstone on Sept 8, 2019 8:58:00 GMT
What some of you old boys forget, or choose to misremember, is that promotion to the Football League was the worst catastrophe in the history of the club, which killed another club in the process. Was one exciting season, followed by Graham Carr and liquidation, really worth selling two football grounds for? Even if history repeated itself and John Still won back to back promotions, would it be any better? We are several million pounds short of even the most basic EFL set up. Where is this money coming from? Maybe a few dozen more tiles on the main stand, or a few modest donations towards the new terrace? Or local business who were asked for £150,000 each to build JWW in return for shares? Only Gallagher responded. If we had failed to win promotion to the Football League, maybe a more modest non-league ground would have been built in the town. You can keep your "living the dream" nonsense. I prefer things as they are. The catastrophe was not promotion to the league, the catastrophe was selling our home before we had a new one to move into. IMHO Maidstone Utd would have survived if we were still playing in Maidstone at the time. Likewise we might still have gone bust even if we hadn't got promoted due to playing home games more than 20 miles away. In other words it's not the automatic promotion to the football league that is the problem but the way some but not all clubs go about it. The likes of Wycombe and many others have shown it can be done the right way. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2019 9:28:41 GMT
I'd add to JDL's list that Scarborough and Rushden have both reformed and doi G ok.
Many of the league clubs relegated have bounced back and done well: Lincoln Oxford Colchester Tranmere. Others less so.
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Post by jdl on Sept 8, 2019 10:17:51 GMT
What some of you old boys forget, or choose to misremember, is that promotion to the Football League was the worst catastrophe in the history of the club, which killed another club in the process. Was one exciting season, followed by Graham Carr and liquidation, really worth selling two football grounds for? Even if history repeated itself and John Still won back to back promotions, would it be any better? We are several million pounds short of even the most basic EFL set up. Where is this money coming from? Maybe a few dozen more tiles on the main stand, or a few modest donations towards the new terrace? Or local business who were asked for £150,000 each to build JWW in return for shares? Only Gallagher responded. If we had failed to win promotion to the Football League, maybe a more modest non-league ground would have been built in the town. You can keep your "living the dream" nonsense. I prefer things as they are. The catastrophe was not promotion to the league, the catastrophe was selling our home before we had a new one to move into. IMHO Maidstone Utd would have survived if we were still playing in Maidstone at the time. Likewise we might still have gone bust even if we hadn't got promoted due to playing home games more than 20 miles away. In other words it's not the automatic promotion to the football league that is the problem but the way some but not all clubs go about it. The likes of Wycombe and many others have shown it can be done the right way. Spot on. |
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