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Post by 61666 on Oct 8, 2019 21:48:32 GMT
Mmm. That is one way of looking at it, but the UK are the ones who, allegedly, voted to leave and as such are just one of 20+ other countries who are (mostly) happy to stick together. Unsurprising, given the horrors of less than 80 years ago, plus what the Balkan states would still do to each other, were it not for UN peace keeping forces. It was the UK who, allegedly, voted to leave, so why would everyone else pander to our whims? Wake up and smell the farmyard folks. We are not a big cheese anymore. We do not have an empire, we rely heavily on others. Most of our utilities are foreign owned - sold off by the Tories - Thanet Earth is owned by the Dutch, our new nuclear power stations are being built by the French and Chinese. We badly need friends in Europe and Buck Foris' attempts to piss everyone off in a blame game is not going to make future trade deals in any way easy. Shitcreek will seem quite pleasant once we have alienated much of Europe. Be careful what you wish for.
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Post by distantfan on Oct 9, 2019 4:28:02 GMT
The British government could solve this problem in a second, eliminating the need for a backstop, if it was prepared to compromise by creating a customs border in the Irish Sea. Free movement of goods and people on the island of Ireland is in the interests of the economy of Northern Ireland which does far more business with the Republic than it does with Great Britain. It is also consistent with the long-term interests of Northern Ireland where demographic changes make it inevitable that a majority of its voters will eventually support some form of political reunification.
The decision to put the border in the North Sea may not be palatable for the DUP but if Brexiters are right about Brexit’s benefits to the British economy then it should not be held up by a very small regional political party.
We don't need the EU to compromise, we have the solution in our own hands. Makes you wonder just how serious the Brexiters are about getting Brexit.
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Post by 61666 on Oct 9, 2019 8:09:24 GMT
Have always thought the above an obvious solution and one that would really benefit the North and South economically. However, politically and culturally, the divides in the north remain very deep. You'd think Sinn Fein would be in agreement, but seems they are not, while the Unionists see it as a complete anathema. Unless you live there, it is difficult to appreciate the issues, I guess
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Post by Nick on Oct 9, 2019 8:11:39 GMT
So blindingly obvious distantfan and so easily achievable, it is truly pathetic that extreme brexit dogma is allowed to get in the way of reason. But there again, that DUP shower are a seriously grim looking bunch dripping in hatred and prejudice.
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Post by 61666 on Oct 9, 2019 9:00:01 GMT
Once suggested to an Orangeman that, while few would complain about their marching season per se, was it necessary to go through and past the Catholic areas, which clearly pissed them off. He was not only put out by this comment, but seemed completely unable to understand it.
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Post by headstone on Oct 9, 2019 12:36:47 GMT
I'm not surprised, I have trouble understanding James Nesbitt or anyone from Norn Iren.
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Post by sword65 on Oct 9, 2019 13:34:37 GMT
Once suggested to an Orangeman that, while few would complain about their marching season per se, was it necessary to go through and past the Catholic areas, which clearly pissed them off. He was not only put out by this comment, but seemed completely unable to understand it. Perhaps he had just been tango'd.
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Post by pigbag on Oct 9, 2019 15:35:05 GMT
Mmm. That is one way of looking at it, but the UK are the ones who, allegedly, voted to leave and as such are just one of 20+ other countries who are (mostly) happy to stick together. Unsurprising, given the horrors of less than 80 years ago, plus what the Balkan states would still do to each other, were it not for UN peace keeping forces. It was the UK who, allegedly, voted to leave, so why would everyone else pander to our whims? Wake up and smell the farmyard folks. We are not a big cheese anymore. We do not have an empire, we rely heavily on others. Most of our utilities are foreign owned - sold off by the Tories - Thanet Earth is owned by the Dutch, our new nuclear power stations are being built by the French and Chinese. We badly need friends in Europe and Buck Foris' attempts to piss everyone off in a blame game is not going to make future trade deals in any way easy. Shitcreek will seem quite pleasant once we have alienated much of Europe. Be careful what you wish for. It is true that it was our decision to leave but you would think the EU would be happy about it as if we stay Nigel and Co will do their best to block and cause chaos. The EU is terrified that if we left with a deal we would be better off and that might encourage others to defect. At the moment only 3 countries pay in with us being the second biggest contributor. We will leave a big hole for someone to fill. France gets away without paying but that will change and the eastern countries like Romania will not get those huge improvement grants. How will the EU react? cut the budget? Increase contributions from all but the poorest countries? cut the development grants to the poorer areas? Stop wasting the enormous costs of moving the administration every month? If there is no deal will Boris withhold the money Theresa agreed to pay until the EU have negotiated our future trading relationship? If the EU had been prepared to discuss the trading relationship the Irish border may not have been a problem but they would not do that until the "divorce" settlement was agreed. The failure by politicians on both sides will not only hurt us but will have a greater effect on Holland, Denmark and Eire where thousands of jobs are at risk. The only solution is to leave and then deal with the trade rather than politics and if that fails it will be the EU's decision and we will source products from the rest of the world and be free to arrange trade deals with countries that do wish to trade with one of the largest economies.
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Post by 61666 on Oct 9, 2019 17:56:19 GMT
While I don't agree, the post above may be a first for this thread, as a reasoned arguement for brexit. It's only taken 58 pages!
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Post by Nick 2 on Oct 9, 2019 18:11:10 GMT
Lets see if NWS agrees that pigbags comments are a reasonable arguement for Brexit .... Will not hold my breath
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Post by malibustacey on Oct 9, 2019 19:03:17 GMT
Agreed, glad to see some reason in there instead of the ‘can’t trust Lithuanians’ argument.
Although I think I disagree with all of the statements, even the Nigel one.. they are too lazy for that. The questions are all valid ones though.
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Post by shamstone on Oct 9, 2019 19:39:59 GMT
Lets see if NWS agrees that pigbags comments are a reasonable arguement for Brexit .... Will not hold my breath Probably drafting a 10 paragraph response
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Post by Nick 2 on Oct 9, 2019 20:04:47 GMT
Only 10 paragraphs on how NWS is right and anyone who voted leave is wrong ... will be great reading
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Post by nws on Oct 9, 2019 21:21:35 GMT
Only 10 paragraphs on how NWS is right and anyone who voted leave is wrong ... will be great reading Mmmmm...2 posts to try and bait me. I gave you a five line reply to your nonsense and you ran off without answering. Oh and sorry for paragraphs. I know you just write in one long line but I prefer to try and space things out a little. Care to say which veto you were referring to?
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Post by nws on Oct 9, 2019 21:50:31 GMT
Mmm. That is one way of looking at it, but the UK are the ones who, allegedly, voted to leave and as such are just one of 20+ other countries who are (mostly) happy to stick together. Unsurprising, given the horrors of less than 80 years ago, plus what the Balkan states would still do to each other, were it not for UN peace keeping forces. It was the UK who, allegedly, voted to leave, so why would everyone else pander to our whims? Wake up and smell the farmyard folks. We are not a big cheese anymore. We do not have an empire, we rely heavily on others. Most of our utilities are foreign owned - sold off by the Tories - Thanet Earth is owned by the Dutch, our new nuclear power stations are being built by the French and Chinese. We badly need friends in Europe and Buck Foris' attempts to piss everyone off in a blame game is not going to make future trade deals in any way easy. Shitcreek will seem quite pleasant once we have alienated much of Europe. Be careful what you wish for. It is true that it was our decision to leave but you would think the EU would be happy about it as if we stay Nigel and Co will do their best to block and cause chaos. The EU is terrified that if we left with a deal we would be better off and that might encourage others to defect. At the moment only 3 countries pay in with us being the second biggest contributor. We will leave a big hole for someone to fill. France gets away without paying but that will change and the eastern countries like Romania will not get those huge improvement grants. How will the EU react? cut the budget? Increase contributions from all but the poorest countries? cut the development grants to the poorer areas? Stop wasting the enormous costs of moving the administration every month? If there is no deal will Boris withhold the money Theresa agreed to pay until the EU have negotiated our future trading relationship? If the EU had been prepared to discuss the trading relationship the Irish border may not have been a problem but they would not do that until the "divorce" settlement was agreed. The failure by politicians on both sides will not only hurt us but will have a greater effect on Holland, Denmark and Eire where thousands of jobs are at risk. The only solution is to leave and then deal with the trade rather than politics and if that fails it will be the EU's decision and we will source products from the rest of the world and be free to arrange trade deals with countries that do wish to trade with one of the largest economies. I'm interested to know where the assertion that only 3 countries pay in. According to this website there are 9 countries paying in with France being number 3 on the list. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48256318I'm also puzzled (as should many leavers be) by the assertion that Nigel & Co will cause chaos and block things. We have been told (by Nigel & Co) for years that we have no power, sovereignty etc and are rule takers not rule makers. Where has this power to do things suddenly come from? Are you suggesting that Nigel and co lied? I would also point out that we do well out of the trade side of things. Now our exports will face tariffs, despite the lie that we could continue free trade under GATT24. On your central message, I don't disagree. Economically, we will suffer, EU countries will suffer. On that basis, you can only argue that leaving is a silly idea. Lastly consider, in 2018, 46% of our exports went to the EU while 8%-18% of EU exports went to the UK. If we crash out then we will lose pretty much all of our trade deals across the world. The EU will lose us. I hope we have some good deals lined up and not just an over-reliance on desperately running to Agent Orange to exchange our NHS for chlorinated chicken (OK that is a bit facetious). Oh and I agree with 61666. I might not necessarily agree, but least you are asking some decent questions not just spouting the latest Daily Express lie. Keep posting it so the debate can be of a better quality.
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