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Post by daveu on Apr 30, 2019 8:01:12 GMT
All I can do is refer you to recent posts on Ebbsfleet and Gateshead. Ambition is one thing, but not at any expense. I will happily take a decent season or two in NLS (with the emphasis on good home form), to getting promotion only to find we are then in another season like the current one. There is no evidence at the moment that the club is ready to compete in the NL. Until we are, then there is little point in going back if all we will do is suffer. Plus, I don't think the NL has that much to offer over the he NLS at the moment anyway. I'm not advocating overspending, but the last thing I want to see is a team not competing for fear of promotion. I'd rather see a yoyo team than one who's only ambition is to sit mid table in NLS.
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Post by Nick on Apr 30, 2019 8:34:50 GMT
Surely we simply do the best we can. Happily the management have set their sights on a return to the National League and rightly so. Maybe we will manage it next season, maybe not, but we want to be giving it our best shot. Settling for mid table obscurity would show a shocking lack of faith and ambition. John and Hakan have had their 'honeymoon period' now comes the real test. It will be their players, their team, their choices. As long as the club is there or there abouts in the play-off positions, I think supporters will be happy enough after the misery of this season.
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Post by pwoodstone on Apr 30, 2019 9:02:28 GMT
All I can do is refer you to recent posts on Ebbsfleet and Gateshead. Ambition is one thing, but not at any expense. I will happily take a decent season or two in NLS (with the emphasis on good home form), to getting promotion only to find we are then in another season like the current one. There is no evidence at the moment that the club is ready to compete in the NL. Until we are, then there is little point in going back if all we will do is suffer. Plus, I don't think the NL has that much to offer over the he NLS at the moment anyway. We competed at NL for 2 seasons. That’s the evidence you have overlooked. We had a shocker this season. That’s competitive sport.
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Post by 61666 on Apr 30, 2019 9:35:44 GMT
I want us to compete. I want us to do well. However, I also want us to be competitive when we get promoted again and in trying to recreate a team and also restore the ethos, I cannot see that happening in one season of the NLS. Not without a lot more money and at the moment we don't appear to have it any time soon. Hence strong home form to improve the gates and a cup run or two to boost the coffers as well. The money in the NL seems to have increased substantially even during our short tenure and we need to be ready next time.
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Post by daveu on Apr 30, 2019 9:46:11 GMT
I want us to compete. I want us to do well. However, I also want us to be competitive when we get promoted again and in trying to recreate a team and also restore the ethos, I cannot see that happening in one season of the NLS. Not without a lot more money and at the moment we don't appear to have it any time soon. Hence strong home form to improve the gates and a cup run or two to boost the coffers as well. The money in the NL seems to have increased substantially even during our short tenure and we need to be ready next time. As I said, I'd rather see a YoYo team than one that's frightened of promotion. Your whole premise appears to be based on fear of failure the following season should we achieve promotion next season. It's ridiculous to say you want us to compete but you don't want promotion. The two are mutually exclusive.
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Post by toonarmy on Apr 30, 2019 10:08:21 GMT
We should always set up and go out each season to try and do the very best we can, now we are in the South we should be aiming for promotion and if this doesn't happen then so be it, as long as we have given it a good go and the team have played like a team and played well I for one will be happy with that, what we don't need is silly statements from the club saying we have a top 3 budget and then for that to be diluted down to say it is in fact a top half budget as this in my humble opinion sets peoples expectations too high and when things don't go to plan and this is football and anything can happen we have a major melt down
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Post by Better things to do in life on Apr 30, 2019 10:19:50 GMT
We should always set up and go out each season to try and do the very best we can, now we are in the South we should be aiming for promotion and if this doesn't happen then so be it, as long as we have given it a good go and the team have played like a team and played well I for one will be happy with that, what we don't need is silly statements from the club saying we have a top 3 budget and then for that to be diluted down to say it is in fact a top half budget as this in my humble opinion sets peoples expectations too high and when things don't go to plan and this is football and anything can happen we have a major melt down Far too sensible a post for this thread, toon.
Yes we should be ambitious for promotion first season in NLS, and no we shouldn't expect it, yes we would still be happy if we just missed out and played well, entertained the fans and rebuilt the heart of the club and team and tried again the following year and yes, whenever we get back to NL, we do need to be better prepared financially, organisationally, and with the right squad.
Isn't that we are all saying, just in slightly different ways, and isn't that slightly obvious?
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Post by 61666 on Apr 30, 2019 10:36:24 GMT
I want us to compete. I want us to do well. However, I also want us to be competitive when we get promoted again and in trying to recreate a team and also restore the ethos, I cannot see that happening in one season of the NLS. Not without a lot more money and at the moment we don't appear to have it any time soon. Hence strong home form to improve the gates and a cup run or two to boost the coffers as well. The money in the NL seems to have increased substantially even during our short tenure and we need to be ready next time.
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Post by pwoodstone on Apr 30, 2019 11:05:46 GMT
I think you are wrong in saying that it is money that is the key. It doesn’t have to be. That’s my opinion.
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Post by daveu on Apr 30, 2019 11:13:15 GMT
61666, You've already said that once and it doesn't make any more sense the second time. If we get promoted we get promoted, regardless of whether you think we are ready or not. You can't pick and choose whether or not you get promoted, you can't simply choose strong home form and a cup run or two. The season will pan out how it pans out and if we are champions or in the playoffs that will simply be how it is. I certainly wouldn't want the team to try to engineer a situation where we just miss out on promotion because we don't have enough money to compete at the higher level. I guess in a nutshell, what I'm saying is what will be will be regardless of whether we are ready for the step up or not.
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Post by toonarmy on Apr 30, 2019 11:49:12 GMT
61666, You've already said that once and it doesn't make any more sense the second time. If we get promoted we get promoted, regardless of whether you think we are ready or not. You can't pick and choose whether or not you get promoted, you can't simply choose strong home form and a cup run or two. The season will pan out how it pans out and if we are champions or in the playoffs that will simply be how it is. I certainly wouldn't want the team to try to engineer a situation where we just miss out on promotion because we don't have enough money to compete at the higher level. I guess in a nutshell, what I'm saying is what will be will be regardless of whether we are ready for the step up or not. Dave I don't think 61666 is saying we should chuck promotion, he is being very pragmatic and saying if and when we go up we have a decent budget so at least we can compete similar to the 1st 2 seasons in the NL, not like the car crash we all encountered this season
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Post by jdl on Apr 30, 2019 12:28:18 GMT
Come on chaps, we clearly need more than a season back in the NS before we are ready to tackle the NL again.
We've just had the worst season in our history (and I AM including the Wilderness Years - relatively). We've crashed and burnt - 34 points over an entire season, GD of -45, almost 20 points off safety, even six points below the second to last team, beaten by all the shit teams in the league, five managers, more keepers than I can remember, dozens of players in and out - this wasn't a bad season, it was a catastrophe.
And now we have to rebuild from scratch, hoping that JS2 hasn't lost his touch and that HH is a better manager than most of us fear he is. We'll be lucky just to do well in the NS, let alone get straight back up - especially with 4 or 5 other clubs, determined to beat us to it, and all hitting the ground running. If we didn't have the support we do, we'd be more worried about double relegation than going straight back up - it's happened to bigger and better clubs than us.
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Post by jdl on Apr 30, 2019 12:42:48 GMT
As for trying not to get promoted - I suspect that isn't going to be a problem.
With nearly a third of the places being playoffs these days, it's difficult not to have a half decent season without ending up in the playoffs. It is not so much a case of aiming for the playoffs - if we do have a good season, we'll almost certainly end up there anyweay. Any club trying not to end up in the top 7 of a 22 club division needs their collective heads examined.
But assuming we'll probably make the playoffs, is not the same thing as aiming for promotion. If we do make the top 7, we'll be up against clubs like Aldershot, Woking, Braintree, Billericay, H&W, Dartford, Welling, Wealdstone, Concord, Chelmsford*... That's ten of the seven already!
Ambition isn't going to be a problem this season, we haven't just won two promotions in three years, with a young manager on his way up and ever increasing crowds. We've just crashed out of the NL, after a humiliating season, with an untried manager, hardly any players, a club in disarray, and a lack of funds. Survival, restructuring and rebuilding will be our ambitions next season, not promotion back to the madhouse.
(* And, yes, I know we won't be playing all these clubs...)
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Post by nws on Apr 30, 2019 13:16:44 GMT
Alex Flisher was definitely the hungriest player we had
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Post by daveu on Apr 30, 2019 13:24:08 GMT
Come on chaps, we clearly need more than a season back in the NS before we are ready to tackle the NL again. We've just had the worst season in our history (and I AM including the Wilderness Years - relatively). We've crashed and burnt - 34 points over an entire season, GD of -45, almost 20 points off safety, even six points below the second to last team, beaten by all the shit teams in the league, five managers, more keepers than I can remember, dozens of players in and out - this wasn't a bad season, it was a catastrophe. And now we have to rebuild from scratch, hoping that JS2 hasn't lost his touch and that HH is a better manager than most of us fear he is. We'll be lucky just to do well in the NS, let alone get straight back up - especially with 4 or 5 other clubs, determined to beat us to it, and all hitting the ground running. If we didn't have the support we do, we'd be more worried about double relegation than going straight back up - it's happened to bigger and better clubs than us. Utter garbage. The relegation season at Ashford was easily the worst season I can remember. Or how about 1992 when we didn't even manage to start the season. And as for writing the season off before we even start, you should be ashamed to call yourself a supporter with that attitude.
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