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Post by Bernie on Mar 17, 2019 7:16:30 GMT
Been thinking about this since the collapse of North Ferriby. Last season the National League was won by a club who paid their players late and have failed in the EFL. This season we have lost to a team who play in front of three figure crowds and have to be taken to court by the taxman. And one of the wealthiest owners has regularly paid his players late.
Isn't it time UEFA financial fair play regulations were extended from the Premier League to the whole of non league? Why is financial mismanagement allowed to flourish and even be rewarded? Maybe Oliver Ash should use his position on the National League committee to lobby for good governance, instead of campaigning for 3G and a 5th division.
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Post by jdh80 on Mar 17, 2019 17:53:07 GMT
It's not just national league teams who have been mismanaged there are plenty of league teams who are being run extremely poorly.
Bolton owe greater Manchester police in excess of £250k, their own staff are not being paid in full or on time.
Coventry have until 24 April to confirm to the league where they will be hosting home games with proof of the contract otherwise face expulsion from the league.
There are lots of other teams struggling financially chasing the dream of playing in the highest league. There are also a lot of foreign owners who have been fleecing the TV income for the teams they own.
Manchester City under pep have spent over £800million on transfer fees, this does not include signing bonuses or agent payments to "facilitate" the deal.
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Post by rockstar on Mar 17, 2019 18:02:29 GMT
So how do Bolton get away not paying £250k but north ferriby fold because of £7k? They should also be made to fold and other teams that can’t pay their debts.
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Post by 61666 on Mar 17, 2019 18:09:09 GMT
Evidence like this makes you wonder. Easy for Stones to be a bit 'holier than', but they have been through the pain and come out the other side so are entitled.
An awful lot of teams are living well beyond their means if you take away TV money, to say nothing about millionaires'/oligarchs etc backing. Is that fair? Depends on who you support I suppose...
The only difference between our level and higher up is the number of zeros and as already been hinted, we will go from have nots to haves next season in NLS.
Perhaps the bottom line is to simply make sure you make the most of what you are 'given'. Make a mess of it and the downward spiral can easily get out of control and even become terminal.
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Post by jdh80 on Mar 17, 2019 18:11:48 GMT
So how do Bolton get away not paying £250k but north ferriby fold because of £7k? They should also be made to fold and other teams that can’t pay their debts. No idea but the police were threatening to not provide any more officers at Bolton home games until the debt was paid, not sure how that has progressed but Bolton were away this weekend to Wigan. Not sure of the repercussions of this either as i think teams legally have to have a certain amount of officers at the ground for every home game or perhaps Bolton will play any further home games with no fans in attendance?? |
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Post by jdh80 on Mar 17, 2019 18:20:31 GMT
Evidence like this makes you wonder. Easy for Stones to be a bit 'holier than', but they have been through the pain and come out the other side so are entitled. An awful lot of teams are living well beyond their means if you take away TV money, to say nothing about millionaires'/oligarchs etc backing. Is that fair? Depends on who you support I suppose... The only difference between our level and higher up is the number of zeros and as already been hinted, we will go from have nots to haves next season in NLS. Perhaps the bottom line is to simply make sure you make the most of what you are 'given'. Make a mess of it and the downward spiral can easily get out of control and even become terminal. It's not trying to be holier than now, it is a huge concern. Coventry city had spent over forty years straight in our top flight and now they are on the verge of expulsion due to having nowhere to play. How can things like this happen?? Looking back did they really need to leave Highfield road, was the Ricoh a financial outlay that they could've done without is that what has cost them? Similar to Bolton moving to the reebok, chesterfield dropping out of the league with financial issues after moving to the new b2net stadium, do some of the teams who build new stadiums overspend doing this and then struggle to recoup that expenditure? |
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Post by sword65 on Mar 17, 2019 19:17:20 GMT
Evidence like this makes you wonder. Easy for Stones to be a bit 'holier than', but they have been through the pain and come out the other side so are entitled. An awful lot of teams are living well beyond their means if you take away TV money, to say nothing about millionaires'/oligarchs etc backing. Is that fair? Depends on who you support I suppose... The only difference between our level and higher up is the number of zeros and as already been hinted, we will go from have nots to haves next season in NLS. Perhaps the bottom line is to simply make sure you make the most of what you are 'given'. Make a mess of it and the downward spiral can easily get out of control and even become terminal. It's not trying to be holier than now, it is a huge concern. Coventry city had spent over forty years straight in our top flight and now they are on the verge of expulsion due to having nowhere to play. How can things like this happen?? Looking back did they really need to leave Highfield road, was the Ricoh a financial outlay that they could've done without is that what has cost them? Similar to Bolton moving to the reebok, chesterfield dropping out of the league with financial issues after moving to the new b2net stadium, do some of the teams who build new stadiums overspend doing this and then struggle to recoup that expenditure? YES! |
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Post by stonelacro on Mar 17, 2019 20:49:52 GMT
Always been these sort of problems in football and probably always will be! Indeed in all types of large and small businesses too!
Just hope our downward spiral doesn't eventually draw us into a similar sort of position! At the moment though we seem ok and the rest aren't really our problem!
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Post by daveu on Mar 17, 2019 22:14:42 GMT
Always been these sort of problems in football and probably always will be! Indeed in all types of large and small businesses too! Just hope our downward spiral doesn't eventually draw us into a similar sort of position! At the moment though we seem ok and the rest aren't really our problem! Not strictly true to say they aren't our problem. If teams are getting into debt to pay players they can't afford that is a problem for every team like us who live within their means, because we can't compete with them. It's cheating, not only the people they owe money to, but all the other teams in the league. |
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Post by pwoodstone on Mar 17, 2019 22:59:47 GMT
So how do Bolton get away not paying £250k but north ferriby fold because of £7k? They should also be made to fold and other teams that can’t pay their debts. i It depends who calls their debt in. NFU could notnpah such a small debt and admitted as much. They were wound up. They are a tiny club with very small revenue streams. They had already slashed their playing budgetmabout 95%. Bolton would probably not have had the “final notice” letter from the police force. Also they have a massive revenue stream but are just poorly managed off the field. I would also suggest the police would not want to switch off a decent revenue stream themselves as they make good money off football clubs. All in all, the clubs that live within their means are going to sleep better at nights whereas fans of clubs bank rolled By millionaires will realise it’s a matter of time before it goes south. |
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Post by stonelacro on Mar 18, 2019 0:50:12 GMT
But whether we like to admit it or not, we are being bank rolled too!
My point is how long will this continue if we continue our current slide? We already see the support beginning to fall!
... and I would think more than 80% of Clubs at this level are bank rolled to some degree anyway!
Think we are kidding ourselves if we think it couldn't happen to us!
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Post by pwoodstone on Mar 18, 2019 7:57:12 GMT
But whether we like to admit it or not, we are being bank rolled too! My point is how long will this continue if we continue our current slide? We already see the support beginning to fall! ... and I would think more than 80% of Clubs at this level are bank rolled to some degree anyway! Think we are kidding ourselves if we think it couldn't happen to us! We are a solvent business, there’s a difference between being bank rolled and directors lending money. We turn a large profit. |
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Post by porkystone on Mar 18, 2019 8:30:07 GMT
We are a solvent business, there’s a difference between being bank rolled and directors lending money. We turn a large profit. Because MUFC Group of Companies haven't yet filed accounts with Companies House for the year ended 30 June 2018 ( due 31 March 2019 ) we can't tell how much of a profit we enjoyed last year, let alone the shitstorm of a year that 2018 / 19 will have been. |
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Post by jdl on Mar 18, 2019 15:21:46 GMT
But whether we like to admit it or not, we are being bank rolled too! My point is how long will this continue if we continue our current slide? We already see the support beginning to fall! ... and I would think more than 80% of Clubs at this level are bank rolled to some degree anyway! Think we are kidding ourselves if we think it couldn't happen to us! We are not being "bank rolled", we are simply owned by fans, who have spent their money building the ground and facilities. Beyond that, the club is expected to survive as a solvent business, with no fresh money put in by the owners (under normal circumstances). This is an entirely different situation to the sort of clubs/situations under discussion, where success is bought by pumping money into the playing side and/or blowing money on unrealistic dreams of new stadiums. Our club is a model of probity, compared to them. And the owners put their money into an Isthmian South/IP club, so I'm sure they are not going to bale out because we are now a NL/NS club! We are also not on a "slide" - that's utterly ridiculous. We have simply found our level for now (top NS/bottom NL). I am totally bemused as to how getting relegated from the NL, after three seasons, having got there via three promotions in just 4 previous seasons, can possibly be described as a "slide". This is madness. We got a bit above ourselves after such rapid promotion and thought we were better than we are. Doing well in our first NL season as a part-time club, mistakenly made us think we'd do even better going 'full-time'. This didn't work, and we are now where we are. We will drop down, rebuild and consolidate, and get back up into the NL again - only this time on a more sustainable basis, with more realistic expectations, knowing it's a marathon at this level, not a sprint. Crowds have actually held up remarkably well, all things considered, and will pick up again, so the business model will continue to work and fund the club. This season, the owners may have had to inject some extra cash, and they may have to put a bit more in to repair the damage and prepare us for success in the NS, but this is short-term and small-scale, compared to the sort of high level, on-going funding that occurs in other clubs. |
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Post by stonelacro on Mar 19, 2019 19:10:48 GMT
To me an even bigger worry in the way clubs at this level 'cheat the system' is by the way they use loan players!
One or two loan players per season to cover for injuries etc is fine by me, but bringing in half the team on loan so you are not paying the going rate to players nor the full tax or NI is either cheating or the club is playing at a level it can't afford!
Unfair on both players and supporters in my opinion! Think there should be a rule for a minimum fully paid squad size, and a cap on loan players!
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