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Post by Better things to do in life on Dec 24, 2018 22:18:07 GMT
If I have to explain the heart of the club I'm probably wasting my time but here goes. It's the feeling, the overall atmosphere which comes from players, staff,and fans together,with loyalty, banter, fun,and good football, win it lose.How much of that do you feel at the Gallagher or from the managers or even the players under HW? Completely disagree: Owners come and go Managers and staff come and go Players come and go The only constant is the fans, the fans are the heartbeat of every sports team.
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Post by Better things to do in life on Dec 24, 2018 22:25:49 GMT
You really do have delusions of grandeur don't you....the heart of the club is ONLY the fans? Really? Owners don't come and go that often and in a good club you have players who stick around and become legends like Gerard or Scholes or in our case, should have been Worgan, Lewis, Twusami etc. You really do have too high an opinion of yourself and fans power, my friend. If the majority of MUFC fans had that much power HW would be toast and long gone, and the fact he remains shows how little impact the fans have. That's the problem at the Stones. No one is listening to the facts, the fans, or the bleeding obvious...that HW was a bad appointment, has failed, is out of his depth and needs to be replaced ASAP to avoid relefgation. If we can blow £24K ofmoney on 32 year old Bostik goalscorers surely we can pay off HW's contract and get an experienced Manager in to bring sanity into the current madness and get an experienced head in. But, I'm fed up with saying this now, as its clearly going nowhere. Its Christmas and its only football. Happy Christmas to one and all!
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Post by sword65 on Dec 24, 2018 22:46:14 GMT
No, but sword won't let the facts get in the way of his story It would seem that you gave taken my post the wrong way . It was supposed to show that we are a long way from being at a serious stage in or attempts to get Wheeler out. A dozen or so posters calling for his head us going to have no effect on the owners or Harry. A couple of thousand probably might make both parties sit up and listen but what the Burnley boys did was probably about plan Q. And so you have taken my words in the wrong context (heard that somewhere before). And you are right I didn't know whether he was married or not but that realky wasn't the point of the post.
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Post by nws on Dec 25, 2018 0:19:32 GMT
If I have to explain the heart of the club I'm probably wasting my time but here goes. It's the feeling, the overall atmosphere which comes from players, staff,and fans together,with loyalty, banter, fun,and good football, win it lose.How much of that do you feel at the Gallagher or from the managers or even the players under HW? Completely disagree: Owners come and go Managers and staff come and go Players come and go The only constant is the fans, the fans are the heartbeat of every sports team. Just to point out that in the mid-1990s we got around 60 home fans and 20-30 away fans.
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Post by jdh80 on Dec 25, 2018 0:39:46 GMT
You really do have delusions of grandeur don't you....the heart of the club is ONLY the fans? Really? Owners don't come and go that often and in a good club you have players who stick around and become legends like Gerard or Scholes or in our case, should have been Worgan, Lewis, Twusami etc. You really do have too high an opinion of yourself and fans power, my friend. If the majority of MUFC fans had that much power HW would be toast and long gone, and the fact he remains shows how little impact the fans have. That's the problem at the Stones. No one is listening to the facts, the fans, or the bleeding obvious...that HW was a bad appointment, has failed, is out of his depth and needs to be replaced ASAP to avoid relefgation. If we can blow £24K ofmoney on 32 year old Bostik goalscorers surely we can pay off HW's contract and get an experienced Manager in to bring sanity into the current madness and get an experienced head in. But, I'm fed up with saying this now, as its clearly going nowhere. Its Christmas and its only football. Happy Christmas to one and all! You're comparing Gerard and Scholes with Lewis and twumasi and say i have delusions. Gerard and Scholes were at Liverpool and united for twenty years each, Lewis and Seth have been with us for two and a half to three years both late twenties early thirties, how many times have both of these players been lambasted on this very forum for mistakes leading to a goal or being too slow/off the pace but your saying we should have kept them so that they can be with us another five or so years to become legends?? I agree that harry has failed to deliver on what was promised. What i see is a rock and a hard place for the owners, if they bow to fan pressure and sack harry then how many of the players will up sticks and follow him out the door, what manager in their right mind from this level or higher up would want to take over, they're likely going to have to bring in replacements for the players who leave and get that team to gel and by that stage we'll be even deeper in the brown stuff than we are now and the fans will be yelling for that manager to go as the results will stay the same, we are not an appealing team at the moment as we look certain to go down and a new manager probably doesn't want a relegation on their CV especially one where they aren't going to be able to make the changes they want. The owners Imo were looking at harry and his team to build a long term project here but to be able to do that he needed to hit the ground running and get us to mid table obscurity it hasn't happened, do i think harry has the tools (players) to get us out yes do i think he has the managerial nouse to get us out I'm not convinced. Also on the subject of players you called Robinson a Bostick player, you do know that he has played league football and scored for shrewsbury, Northampton and Luton, three teams at a higher level than us. At Shrewsbury 35 starts and 21 sub appearances with 11 goals ok doesn't set the world slight 1 goal in 5 but how many minutes was he playing in them games.
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Post by jdh80 on Dec 25, 2018 0:42:38 GMT
Completely disagree: Owners come and go Managers and staff come and go Players come and go The only constant is the fans, the fans are the heartbeat of every sports team. Just to point out that in the mid-1990s we got around 60 home fans and 20-30 away fans. Yes and those fans are the reason why the team lives on they continued to support the team, if they wouldn't have bothered turning up every week the rest of us wouldn't be here now following the stones.
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Post by nws on Dec 25, 2018 0:46:55 GMT
Just to point out that in the mid-1990s we got around 60 home fans and 20-30 away fans. Yes and those fans are the reason why the team lives on they continued to support the team, if they wouldn't have bothered turning up every week the rest of us wouldn't be here now following the stones. Maybe/maybe not...but my point was that much of the fanbase did disappear when we went bust and ignored us when we were truly dire, only reappearing (along with new fans) in 2012, so to claim the fans are constant seems to be stretching the truth quite a lot.
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Post by jdl on Dec 25, 2018 1:09:11 GMT
A difficult conundrum.
It is of course true that we wouldn't be where we are without T&O, and probably wouldn't be anywhere at all without PBB.
But when I first supported the Stones, the manager was Barry Watling, and the club was run by Jim Thompson. Neither of them are still at the club. Also, of course, none of the players I watched in those days are still at the club. And the club itself died and was reborn, and now plays in an entirely different location.
And yet, on an average JWW matchday, I will still see somewhere between a couple and a dozen of the fans I used to see regularly at London Road.
So, despite what PBB did for us, and what T&O have given us - and with absolutely no disrespect to any of them, we are forever in their debt - I have to say the one constant of the club, the thing that makes the club, that links the modern-day MUFC, to the old one of 40 or more years ago - is the supporters.
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Post by sword65 on Dec 25, 2018 1:34:41 GMT
Yes and those fans are the reason why the team lives on they continued to support the team, if they wouldn't have bothered turning up every week the rest of us wouldn't be here now following the stones. Maybe/maybe not...but my point was that much of the fanbase did disappear when we went bust and ignored us when we were truly dire, only reappearing (along with new fans) in 2012, so to claim the fans are constant seems to be stretching the truth quite a lot. Its really quite funny that back then when we were truly dire we as fans still enjoyed the whole affair being home or away didn't matter it was fun especially going to obscure places that we are never likely to go back to. The same cannot be said today we are not half as bad as we were back then bit there's no fun anymore. I wonder if it is just because we are all 25 years older.
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Post by Raymondo316 on Dec 25, 2018 2:50:02 GMT
You really do have delusions of grandeur don't you....the heart of the club is ONLY the fans? Really? Owners don't come and go that often and in a good club you have players who stick around and become legends like Gerard or Scholes or in our case, should have been Worgan, Lewis, Twusami etc. You really do have too high an opinion of yourself and fans power, my friend. If the majority of MUFC fans had that much power HW would be toast and long gone, and the fact he remains shows how little impact the fans have. That's the problem at the Stones. No one is listening to the facts, the fans, or the bleeding obvious...that HW was a bad appointment, has failed, is out of his depth and needs to be replaced ASAP to avoid relefgation. If we can blow £24K ofmoney on 32 year old Bostik goalscorers surely we can pay off HW's contract and get an experienced Manager in to bring sanity into the current madness and get an experienced head in. But, I'm fed up with saying this now, as its clearly going nowhere. Its Christmas and its only football. Happy Christmas to one and all! Get real there is noway we spent that much on someone who is only on contract till the end of the season. As for comparing Lewis, Twumasi & Worgs to players like Gerrard & Scholes?? you must of been on the booze big time. Have you forgotten how everyone was moaning how accident prone they were and didn't look as good as last season?? this was even when Jay was managing early on in the season. Likewise I keep seeing people suddenly swooning over Jai Reason yet pretty much everyone on here was happy when he was released in the summer.
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Post by hongkongstone on Dec 26, 2018 2:39:03 GMT
A difficult conundrum. It is of course true that we wouldn't be where we are without T&O, and probably wouldn't be anywhere at all without PBB. But when I first supported the Stones, the manager was Barry Watling, and the club was run by Jim Thompson. Neither of them are still at the club. Also, of course, none of the players I watched in those days are still at the club. And the club itself died and was reborn, and now plays in an entirely different location. And yet, on an average JWW matchday, I will still see somewhere between a couple and a dozen of the fans I used to see regularly at London Road. So, despite what PBB did for us, and what T&O have given us - and with absolutely no disrespect to any of them, we are forever in their debt - I have to say the one constant of the club, the thing that makes the club, that links the modern-day MUFC, to the old one of 40 or more years ago - is the supporters. As a bit of Xmas philosophy I will invoke the "Ship of Theseus" conundrum on the concept of identity. As a quick summary, is the Ship of Thesueus the one that has over time lost all of it's original parts only to be replaced with new ones or is the boat constructed later on and made up of the recovered parts originally lost from the first boat? Which one is the Ship of Theseus? There was a legal case a few years ago where it was referenced when someone claimed that the car they were selling was "Bentley #1", the first Bentley ever built, where the counter claim was that there wasn't an original part on the vehicle. The case was awarded to the owner of "Bentley #1" on the basis that whilst there were no original parts that the car, that it had maintained the original identity over time. Transferring this to the MUFC example under discussion, it is is not any one part of players, fans, management, owners, holding companies, ground etc. that defines the club as these are all transient. But the club is the IDENTITY that exists as a continuation in whatever format, even Maidstone Invicta, from 1898. Anyway, Merry Xmas from Hong Kong and something for everyone to discuss over turkey sandwiches (or hair of the dog) during Boxing Day recovery sessions (hopefully also including the Dover game within this definition).
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Post by sword65 on Dec 26, 2018 3:08:19 GMT
A difficult conundrum. It is of course true that we wouldn't be where we are without T&O, and probably wouldn't be anywhere at all without PBB. But when I first supported the Stones, the manager was Barry Watling, and the club was run by Jim Thompson. Neither of them are still at the club. Also, of course, none of the players I watched in those days are still at the club. And the club itself died and was reborn, and now plays in an entirely different location. And yet, on an average JWW matchday, I will still see somewhere between a couple and a dozen of the fans I used to see regularly at London Road. So, despite what PBB did for us, and what T&O have given us - and with absolutely no disrespect to any of them, we are forever in their debt - I have to say the one constant of the club, the thing that makes the club, that links the modern-day MUFC, to the old one of 40 or more years ago - is the supporters. As a bit of Xmas philosophy I will invoke the "Ship of Theseus" conundrum on the concept of identity. As a quick summary, is the Ship of Thesueus the one that has over time lost all of it's original parts only to be replaced with new ones or is the boat constructed later on and made up of the recovered parts originally lost from the first boat? Which one is the Ship of Theseus? There was a legal case a few years ago where it was referenced when someone claimed that the car they were selling was "Bentley #1", the first Bentley ever built, where the counter claim was that there wasn't an original part on the vehicle. The case was awarded to the owner of "Bentley #1" on the basis that whilst there were no original parts that the car, that it had maintained the original identity over time. Transferring this to the MUFC example under discussion, it is is not any one part of players, fans, management, owners, holding companies, ground etc. that defines the club but IS the identity that exists as a continuation, in whatever format, from 1898. Anyway, Merry Xmas from Hong Kong and something for everyone to discuss over turkey sandwiches (or hair of the dog) on your Boxing Day recovery sessions. Just like Trigger in Only fools and horses being given an award for using the same broom for 30 years even though it's had 14 new heads and 9 new handles.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2018 6:21:41 GMT
Absolutely.
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Post by Bernie on Dec 26, 2018 9:01:41 GMT
It's sad to consider the club's golden years passed by with nobody noticing; choose your own era. All that awaits is disilussion and disappointment, year after year.
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Post by porkystone on Dec 26, 2018 9:16:41 GMT
It's sad to consider the club's golden years passed by with nobody noticing; choose your own era. All that awaits is disilussion and disappointment, year after year. Didn't Santa bring you what you wanted Mate ? I'd cheer up if I were you and crack open a Masterbrew or suchlike ……
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